[Buzz]

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you might not think a bare ace-deuce is a great O8 hand, but the majority of people do, even up to 25-50 and 30-60.

[/ QUOTE ]Hoppscot - I believe a correct understanding of the relative strength of starting hands is an advantage in this game. There are a lot of general misconceptions probably held by a majority of those who play some Omaha-8. I'm not sure that what a majority thinks about a bare ace-deuce is necessarily the truth.
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My overall point is that if you actually look at preflop equity in omaha 8, a lot of hands are much closer then you would originally think,....

[/ QUOTE ] I don't know what you mean by "you." (Do you mean me specifically or do you mean people in general?) But no matter.

We're not comparing KKT9s- to any specific hand. I'd rate it as a not particularly strong hand. I'd also rate A2T9s- as a not particularly strong hand, but at least one that was better than average.

I like both of those hands better in a crowd than one-on-one after a crowd has been dealt hands, all but one of which have been folded.

A2T9 only has a probability of making the nut low 424512/1712304 = 24.79%.

That's only one time out of four, and then there's the whole fractionating thing to consider (getting quartered, sixthed, or eighthed).

The probability of A2T9 making a non-nut low (live ace or live deuce) is another 11.73%.

In a full, tight game (which this one seems to me to be), since everyone is going to play hands with ace-deuce, A2T9 is very likely to be get fractionated for low, and it's not strong for high.

But A2T9, although not a great hand (in my humble opinion, regardless of what the "majority" thinks) is at least a better starting hand than KKT9. In a heads-up contest between A2T9 and KKT9, I don't know and I don't care which is the better hand. (My guess is they're very close). Heads-up against an unknown hand, I would prefer A78J-rainbow to KKT9 with a suited ten-nine. (I would not normally seriously consider playing A78J-rainbow in a full game).
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so shorthanded in position I am going to play much more aggressively and take the edge i get in position over the slight equity i may give up.

[/ QUOTE ]That makes good sense to me. But this is not a short-handed game. Instead this is a rather tight game (by my standards) where Hero is in the cut-off seat after three folds. What that means to me is three garbage hands may have folded, possibly leaving the cream of the crop yet to act behind me.

Playing this KKT9s- hand under those conditions is very awkward.
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this is especially the case in shorthanded, higher stakes, aggro games. Maybe im just more used to 25-50 where it is usually 3 or 4 handed and aggression is king.

[/ QUOTE ]Three or four handed would be quite a different game from this seven handed game. A game where three people have folded is simply not the same as a game where only four people were originally dealt cards.

I don't know as "aggression is king" in my limit Omaha-8 games, but aggressive play, when properly and deftly applied, is rewarded, in my humble opinion. You don't necessarily have to come in with a raise to play this game aggressively.

I suppose it's somewhat a matter of playing style.

Buzz