[pvn]

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everybody is talking about the black market. if we ban guns, they would get them anyway, so there's no point. that's like saying we should allow killing, cause it happens anyway.

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No, it's not the same. Having a gun doesn't necessarily hurt anyone. Killing by definition does.

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first guns must be banned. of course you would have to do a lot about the black market too. in norway, i'm sure we have a black market where you can buy guns. but the point is, IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET ONE! a maniac can't just get a gun without an effort. it's impossible.

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Impossible???

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he would have to have contacts and look carefully. this is excactly what i wrote in the original post. of course people would still get guns, and people would still get killed. but that's not the point! the point is to make it as safe as possible.

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We can make things a lot safer by putting everyone in individual padded cells. Then everyone would be much safer. There would be no worries about falling off of ladders. No accidental paper cuts. No skinned-up knees. Very, very safe. Surely you must be for this, since you want everyone to be as safe as possible, right? I'm sure we can arrange for you to live in such a safe environment. Let me know when you're ready.

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50 killed is better than 100 killed. 500 killed is better than 5000. i never said that gun banning would stop ALL murders, or make crime go away. But it would lower the gun-related deaths, naturally. And the criminals? I never said there would be less criminals, as someone here accused me of. But a criminal without a gun is better than a criminal with a gun. now i know what you're gonna say "but a criminal can get a gun anyways"! YES, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM! We're not talking single scenarios here. That's what's so frustrating about arguing with you guys. You go, "well, you don't think there would be guns? huh? no criminals with guns? huh? drugs are forbidden, people use them anyways! omg you are wrong"

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You're thinking you can change one variable and have everything else stay the same. But it doesn't work that way.

Which is better:

1) A criminal with a gun who you can stop

1) A criminal without a gun who you cannot stop

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im sick of this. alcohol is legal in norway. of course people would still drink if it's illegal, but LESS WOULD DO IT!

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FWIW, alcohol prohibition in the US had basically a negligible effect on consumption rates. In fact, some studies indicate that consumption may have actually *increased* during that period. Crime certainly did.

And does anyone really think there's a bunch of people out there who are thinking "I'd really love me some crack, but, nah, Mr. Senator says it's bad, so I'll pass"??

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if guns were forbidden, less criminals would get guns. and that would make a safer society.

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Do you actually have any evidence for either of those claims, or are you just going to repeat your emotional claims over and over again?