[jstill]

i didnt say anything but Id never think to not 3bet here, i do see ur points mjkidd. IMHO I think this hand is pretty easy to know very often when to bet calldown UI vs this type most of the time and i feel great with my valuebets on most boards on the flop and turn truthfully ( thats fairly optimistic tho i suppose, and may be a real headache for many UI oop in a large pot). Im not sure calling preflop makes u make that many fewer mistakes tho ( enough to overcome the value u pass up taking 3betting) since u played ur hand soft and often feel compelled to calldown.

Theres no doubt a Q hurts us quite a bit. Its literally one of the 3 worst cards in the deck (which is why this is a tough spot and a good post i think). worse hands to call im thinking like JT J9 Ax fds maybe even 6x (probably not 88-22 after that turn tho). Either way tho even if the turn goes bet call I hate my river choices all over again so i duno tough hand. I think either line on the turn is a crappy spot, ones pushing a marginal maybe non existant edge IMO with no fold equity against better hands, and the other gets u valueowned and lets them play perfect (altho they may check better hands K rag Qx some of the time fearing ur going for a cr since theyre aggro). These two lines both being kinda crappy spots means they probably dont run too far apart in expectation? betting does feel better to me but thats certainly not a reason to do things at the table