[JDalla]

The goal here is not to offend anyone, but hopefully have a rational discussion about such matters. This is debate specifically the logic of these arguments, not whether or not God exists, Christianity is correct, or if we came from monkeys...


ok so the requirements for getting into Heaven differ in different denominations, but generalizing the critera we have:

1) Accept God into your heart
2) Ask forgiveness for your sins / repent
3) Believe Jesus died on the cross for you
4) Be baptised


Ok, so assume the following premises:

1) Your religion is correct
2) You have accepted God into your heart
3) You have asked forgiveness for your sins / repented for them
4) You believe Jesus died on the cross for you
5) You are babtised
6) Heaven is greater than any possible Earthly life
7) You will be in Heaven for enternity (should you make it)
8) Bob kills you

Conclusion) You go to heaven.

Because of Bob's murderous actions, he has secured you an enterity of heaven. Is this not a favor?

-Or, 8a) you are fatally struck by lightning.

therefore) You go to heaven.

Mother Nature (or God's will) has done you a great favor?

How about this one:

1) If you love someone, you ultimately wish the best for them
2) you love your child
3) your child meets the critera for getting into heaven
4) Your child is murdered

Conclusion) The murder of your child is a very good thing for him or her. You may grieve the loss, be shocked at the act, but you surely can't say "it's not fair, he was so young/innocent" and such, because really he lucked out! Now you don't have to worry about him later in life losing some of his heaven citera, i.e. renouncing his faith, etc. (and really, one lifetime of pain/suffering/loss is rather insignicant compared to eternity)


Following this line of reasoning, you could conclude: Murder of righteous Christians is only a bad thing for the killers, and a good thing for righteous Christians.

Broken down:

1) Righteous Christians who are murdered will spend eterity in the best possible place.
2) Murders (and other sinners) will spend eterity in Hell, which is the worst fate.

Conclusion) you should feel more sorry for the murderers you murdered child. True, at the present moment the murder is making your life much worse, breaking the parent-child bond... etc. But that will only affect you for 80 years at most... compared to the ETERNITY of hell the murder gets. I'd say the kid is damn lucky, he doesn't even have to put up with the sad days, he goes right to the good place.

possible responses:

a) "I don't believe in Hell, only Heaven"
answer: I can make a similar argument for "abscene of Heaven" instead of Hell if you want. It still works.

b) "The Lord works in mysterious ways"
answer: You didn't address the argument in any way, only make a vague claim that you believe it to be wrong, but you don't know why.

c) "I believe everyone goes to Heaven"
answer: you're a universalist. you'll have to come up with a reason why I shouldn't murder and rob people all the time (besides the law).

d) "Doing everything in your power to save lives is required in Christianity"
answer: if anyone want to take this position I'll write you up a brand new post, full of hypothetical situations and such goodness.


If you disagree with these conclusions, you must attack one or more of the premises, or the soundness of the argument (if the truth of the premiese force the conclusion to be true). I would like to hear where you think this argument goes wrong. And isn't it your duty as Christians to teach me the error of my thinking? (perhaps not, some would say so.)