[King Fish]

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rotter 2 things you say make absolutly no sense- even though one was adressed already you still defend this statement:

A player like Daniel or Todd or someothers may have raised him there just to test that and then Gabe wouldhave folded. This is why I don't like watching tournament donks play inHSP.


Yea lets see gabe had already put 34k in the pot so basically if you raise him its a raise all in. I really doubt any of these pros are gonna put there hole stack in here with 88 hoping gabe is bluffing (or isnt pot commited with a monster draw)


He decidedthat Chen was a guy he could bluff and that's why he called preflopwith that hand. I was laughing at DN's commentary when Gabe calledpreflop because I knew with 100% certainty what his plan was and DN wasstill shocked that he would be calling.

Well no [censored]. Except Negranu is analyzing the hand live (or as though he saw it live) They wouldnt put the hand on TV for no reason so when he calls 5k with K5 suited obviously he isnt planning on hitting the flop.

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Gabe started with 111k and I don't believe that if he was re-raised all in he would have been pot committed with a weak A. This isn't a tourney. It's real money. This is also the difference between ABC poker - which is what Gabe was playing - and the better pros who would have been able to spot that kind of a move and put him to a big test.

As far as the K5 hand. I agree that the reason I knew right away what Gabes play would be is because they showed it on TV. There had to be a reason they were showing it so I agree that my deduction of it was results oriented to a degree. But when you say he isn't planning on hitting the flop with K5s that's my point. I know that he knew that there were going to be a lot of flops that he could represent a hand with by calling that 5k preflop raise from a player such as Chen.

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I'm going to go ahead and guess you've NEVER made a play like this in your poker life. And if you have, you're not a winning player.

Sure. Dedicate 170 BB's to the pot in HOPES the guy with hte tight image doesn't at least have top pair. Easy to say when you can see the cards.

You appear to be the quintessential, " I know the EXACT right play at all times" guy. When you can see the cards, at least.

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About time somebody said this.

Gabe was OOP, limp/called w crap preflop, check/called the flop w air, bet right out on the turn w air. Last I checked, that's a great way to donk off a whole bunch of chips, not some "masterful" move. With any sort of luck Chen would have won a big pot right there and all the know-it-alls would be laughing at Gabe.

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My gawd! You're just proving my whole point. I couldn't have said it better. Gabe's move was NOT masterful. That was the point I was making. A better cash game specialist then Chen should have spotted it and pounced. What would Gabe have been calling those raises with? Either a bluff or a monster. He was trying to represent an A low kicker and Chen bought it but if he had really thought about it he should have known that Gabe would not have bet all that money on such a hand.

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Um, duh. Since I happen to have a fairly outgoing personality, if I was in Chen's seat, I would have said "WTF kind of line is that? You either have a monster or pure air." Then I would have used my Spidey-sense to either fold or shove. So what? Chen very likely followed the same thought process, then used his Chen-sense or whatever to fold. Or not, we'll never know. Anyway, neither you, nor I, nor anybody else would know if that was "right" or not until Gabe showed.

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Right but my whole point is that I think that players like Chen don't belong in this HSP game because they will never be able to make that re-raise. Better players may be able to make this once in a while and this is why I am watching HSP. Nothing against Chen. I'm sure he is a fine player but he is out of his league and doesn't bring any entertainment value to the production either.

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But Chen IS capable of making that reraise. In this instance, though, he didn't. At this point, Gabe is an unknown. Is there any reason at this point to believe that Gabe is really comfortable enough at these stakes to bluff in this spot?

Given the situation, I do not think there is a player at that table who does not fold there. MM's fold to Gabe's riv bet was far, far worse than Chen's fold here (tho really not awful, either). You have to remeber the perception of the player who is making the raise.

It is far easier for Chen to push on a player like DN or MM in that situation than it is to push against Gabe.

Poker is easy when you see the hole cards.

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I agree with you 100% that MM's fold was terrible. Where we disagree is in believing that in a HSP game Chen is capable of making such a move. I think you are basing your feeling that he is capable on his tourney play but I am discounting that as having no bearing in a high stakes cash game. Until I see Chen make moves in this game that are anything more than ABC I am going to have to stick with my belief. Believe me though, I would much rather be proved wrong as it would be entertaining to watch.

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No, I'm basing it on live ring game play. The tourney result post was just a bit of sarcasm due to small sample size (Bill has a full-time job and does not play many tournaments at all).

I can assure you that he is not playing with scared money, and is 100% capable of coming over the top at any given hand..with nothing or the nuts. Bill is a very mathmatical player, and understands game theory better than anyone I have ever met.