[doh742]

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A few more ideas as to why collusion may not be that helpful.

1.) The colluder only wins half as much (or 1/3, 1/4 etc.)with his winning hands. But he is still paying the full rake. So it will be harder for colluding players to beat the rake.

2.) Same theory will apply to blinds and/or antes.

3.) Unless the cheaters are bots, it would be difficult to multitable when playing online.

4.) The problem with chimp dumping was already addressed as far as devaluing your chips. I also wanted to point out that again you are splitting your winnings. And going from two (or 3, 4 etc.) chances of winning to one.

5.) If you don't know you're being cheated you could use game theory principals to neutralize any possible cheating until you are sure.

6.) If you do know you are being cheated, use the counter measures which have been discussed.

Just some thoughts, I don't really have any more proof to back these up.

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ok, lets go throught these reasons why collusion isn't helpfull one by one

1. Yes, you are dividing your winnings with another player. But it really isn't two players. Maybe you do pay a full rake for half the winnings, but everytime your partner wins a hand you get half of that for no rake. So it evens out.

2. Same as above.

3. Of course cheaters are not multitabling. You have to pay strict attention to every detail. In addition, you keep thinking its 2 players, why not 5 just attacking any unsuspecting fishes who sit at the table.

4. Chip dumping works wonderfully if you can pull it off. But again, you can't think small terms. You have 10 people moving chips off to each other when they can. Until ultimately two meet at the final table and double the other one up. And off course you are spliting your winnings. But think how much value you would gain by having a double up at key points in the tourney??? Spliting the winnnings doesn't matter when you are STEALING. A good colluding team will almost always get your money. They are cheating and have unfair advantages that you don't. Its not colluding, its STEALING.

5. I will leave game theory alone.

6. If you know that there are 2 or more people colluding at a table, then you leave. That simple. There are no counter measures. You just don't play that game. If you can say, I know player X, Y, Z are signalling and cheating at this table, but I am going to play anyway, then you have a serious gambling problem and need a lot of help.

Cheating exists, collusion exists. Thankfully for us, most people who try to cheat don't understand the game well enough to use its advantages, or are just not good at it. But trust me, at some point, be in amatuer hour at the apollo, or if you play high limit games a pro, you have been colluded against if you play enough poker.

For those who doubt me still, read Richard Marcus' "Dirty Poker" The man killed the tables he cheated with three player.

Or, reading Bringing down the House by Ben Mezrich. A group of MIT kids counted cards and by taking small advantages made millions before they got the screws put to them

I will make one concession to the original poster on this. Most people can't gain enough by collusion to get an advantage from it. However, there are cheats who make livings at it, and are effectivley STEALING your money when you play against them. If you don't play high stakes though, you don't have much to worry about.