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Old 01-04-2007, 12:41 PM
RR RR is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
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Default Re: Why exactly is it bad etiquette to ask to see a losing showdown ha

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Is there a set rule? Does this change depending on venue? Is it the Floor's discretion?

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I don't know about the written rule in this spot, but I would definitely stop the game, call the floorman and invoke the rule saying "I am suspecting collusion and IWTSTH." Because it's pretty clear that button is getting screwed.

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I was obviously button.

I did just this as chips were being raked to the SB I clearly said "IWTSTH" to the Dealer and Floor who was on-hand. Floor then became agitated and told me "This isn't ESPN, you don't get to just see all the hands" and refused to allow me to see the mucked hand from BB. He even went so far as to say that he cannot force BB to play in any manner and the most he could do would be to warn him.

Thoughts?

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I went back and found your prior post, I didn't see it the first time through because I was responding while you posted it. I will summarize briefly before I respond so others don't have to go looking for a post from 12/31. The above poster is down to three handed in a tournament and believes the other two players are colluding. On a particular hand he folds his button and the SB goes all-in and the BB folds. He tells the floor he thinks they are colluding and wants to see what the BB folded.

First of all IWTSTH does not apply here; however, the casino has the right to see any hand it wants to. The floor can take a look if he suspects collusion. There is a legitimate explanation for this behavior. If the BB is the chip leader and the SB has a small stack; there are a lot of people that believe the BB should keep the small blind in the game to keep taking the blinds from the button if the button appears to be trying to outlast the sb for second place. The floor is going to be in a tough spot here because there is no rule against being a bad player, but if he can establish that the BB is definitely doing something wrong he should give him a penalty away form the table (which pretty severe 3 handed). Most likely what will happen is the hand will be something that it is hard to say "anyone would call the push here" so the floor will remind them that poker is not a team sport and that anyone playing in a collusive manner is subject to a penalty. I probably would not play at that casino again.

I actually was in a similiar situation once. I was at the final table of a small locals' casino in Vegas. These two old men agreed to "check it down," I called for the floor and complained. She told me "they always check it down, they are friends."
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