[Nuevo99]

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Has anyone here ever caught a colluder by asking to see the hand? And if not, then either you shouldn't be able to ask at all or we should consider it perfectly fine etiquette to ask. JMHO.

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I disagree. If it's not useful to detect colluders then they should just do away with that rule all together, not just allow people to invoke it just because you want to see someones hands that they have mucked.

Maybe saying it's tradition or whatever is not a good excuse, but consider this:

There are rules that if you bet and I call, you have to show first and I can muck if I lost the hand. That's part of the game, I know it's not always that apparent in online poker (especially if you are running PokerTracker with PokerAce or some sort of program like that).

It's not tradition, or "the way it's always been done", for live players that is part of the game.

But then they created the IWTSTH hand rule, and in online poker they started showing all hands at showdown (in the logs usually, not out in the open). But it's not there for just seeing someone else's hand "because you want to", in fact I know some dealers at my casino wont even let you do it if you state it the wrong way like that. (if you give no reason they turn them over)

If you do it over and over again, hopefully a lot of dealers wont do it as well. I get the sense at mine that if someone does it more than once per dealer they may not do it (because it's clear it's not to just ward off cheating).

So anyway for as many of you that hold the opinion that you should be able to see every single hand that you want, there are probally a huge majority that want to adhear to the rules and be able to muck their losing hands. If there wasnt, you'd see the rule invoked every single hand.

Poker might be a game of information, but it's a game of concealing information as well. Using the IWTSTH rule just takes away from some of the concealing part.

(I myself dont want people invoking it on me, so I would never invoke it on someone else, except for maybe in the case where players are the BETTOR and they dont show their hand in order (usually Internet players))

I do one thing that helps ward off the IWTSTH rule a little bit at least... When it's my turn to show my hand, I make sure that I show it whatever it is. If you adhear to the betting order and people see you show some hands, they are more likely to let you muck more hands. But the people that will bet and then sit there and try to wait for someone else flip over the cards first usually get the rule invoked on them more often (because you never see their cards)