[pvn]

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If we reverted to anarch-capitalism tomorrow, eventually people would come together and form governments.

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People would steal and murder, too. Does that justify it?

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So government's on par with those?

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Precisely.

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Socio-contractually (I'm not even sure if that's a real word) entering into a government has the same non-justifiability as people murdering each other?

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Yes. Social contracts are tools of oppression. They effectively say that people consented to things they never actually consented to.

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I don't really see how they can be compared, especially in the context of 'justification.' No one can give a justification for someone else murdering them (before it took place, obviously). You can justify power/government by looking to the consent of the governed.

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IF (and only if) you actually have that consent. From everyone.

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I just want you to be on record stating that people forming a government have no proper justification in doing so. If that wasn't exactly what you were saying, go on record saying whatever it is you meant.

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That's what I mean. Unless *everyone* that the new government will have jurisdiction over has *voluntarily* agreed to it, it's oppressive, and unjustifiable.