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Old 09-15-2006, 02:11 PM
CybrPunk CybrPunk is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,813
Default Re: Calling Equity? late 20/180

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I agree. I would wait for a bigger hand. This all-in move actually doesn't say much about his hand, he could easily have AK or QJ. Why are you so sure you're ahead here?

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Biggest reason is (his) tilt factor and second reason is his slight pause.
a) when someone takes a bad beat for most of their chips, then goes allin next hand, I tend to put those people on a much wider range of hands than if they had time to 'cool off'
b) His pause. The time he pushed for all his chips and showed AA, he did an instapush. The time he called with AJ, he instacalled. There was a slight delay in his action on this hand, so I sensed weakness
c) third reason -- he was in the cutoff and was first in, therefore he was using the leverage of first-in vig and FE . If you believe they are leaning on this FE crutch should one not use the reverse?

Here is my main contention with the standard "I'd rather push with 72o than call with K9" line:
1) people are going to call with a top 10% hand, meaning with 7 people, even if I wait a hand or two to try and get lucky and pick up a hand - there will be over a 50% chance that one of the others has a calling hand. Even if I go allin with 72, there is over a 50% chance that one of the other 6 players will call with a top 10% hand.
b) these blinds and antes are nasty. I will be losing 30% of my chips soon, after which my FE goes down considerably

I dig the green plastic guys. I dig the FE concept. But I am fostering the idea that there is a counter to FE (from others) and that the more people abuse the first-in FE, the more I should call (or reraise) in certain situations that evidently everyone sees as an automatic fold. If everyone is playing the same way (pushbotting with 5-12BB, only calling with premium at 5-12BB), where is the skill? I am not saying make a habit of calling with top 25% hands, but man if there ever was a spot to do it I thought this was the time

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This is all relative to the chipstacks and blind structure at the time. Because calling and busting leaves you with no chips you are better off open pushing any hand that folds to you as opposed to calling here and utilizing YOUR fold equity, forcing the players who are playing tight to pickup a hand in order to play. Most of them won't call with K9 as you did here.

The other flaw in your thinking is that a player who open pushes most likely no longer has a random hand. When you open push you are assuming that you are pushing into random hands and assign a range to how often they call. The opposite is true here. The OR no longer has a random hand and now has a hand that fits a certain range. That range could easily be be wide but how wide... maybe he's pushing the top 40% of hands... but it's not random any more. How does K9o fare against some of those ranges?

Vs top 40% K9o is a 53/47 dog.

Vs top 20% K9o is a 62/38 dog.

Vs top 50% K9o is only a 52/47 favorite.

So even if we are optimistic and assume villain is pushing the top 40% of hands, which is a pretty loose range for a guy shoving UTG, we're still a dog and if we're really optimistic and say it's top 50% we're only a slight favorite versus that range. How can calling be good here when we still have a small amount of fold equity against the guys with 17k stacks? Of course you don't shove into the CL's blind. Just shove into the medium-small stacks blinds without regard to your cards. No matter what you hold it's more +EV than calling here without a doubt.
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