[ QUOTE ]
This was great brain food. I think it would benefit everybody to think about what might be the best way to play if we were the 1) smallest stack or 2) average (median) stack.
So at our fictional nine-handed final table we would have stacks of
1k, 2k, 3k, ..., 9k.
For both scenarios of being the 1k stack and the 5k stack:
How would you position the other stacks so that it favors you the most?
How would you position the other stacks so that it hinders you the most?
How would your strategy differ between the two?
I'll start:
For being the smallest (1k) stack:
How would you position the other stacks so that it favors you the most?
-I think my goal as a short-stack is to get higher up in the money, so I want big stacks to have position on some small stacks.
-Since its beneficial for a big stack to have small stacks on its left I would not want a big stack on my right. But does that mean I want a big stack on my left? I don’t think that would be good, because the big stack would be more likely to call my desperation steals than a medium stack (as long as I had more than a few big blinds as the shortest stack).
-So my idea of the best stack positions would be me with the biggest stack across from me with the other stacks aligned so that they decrease on both sides from the big stack with the stacks alternating sides filling up the positions closest to me starting on my left (sort of like those fancy double staircases we’ve all seen in movies going up in like a curve with me being between the two at the bottom).
-So if I am in the 1 seat, I want the next smallest in the 2, then the next smallest in the 9, then the next smallest in the 3, then the next smallest in the 8, and so on until we get to the big stack that will be sitting furthest away from me.
I think something like this would facilitate the death of players before me the quickest if I have enough to survive and move up in the money.
How would you position the other stacks so that it hinders you the most?
-This one I think is probably just the exact opposite in that we can go straight-off Gigabet’s post and say that pretty much any layout having the biggest stacks to your right is the worst for us as the smallest stack and that the other chip layouts will not matter very much.
How would your strategy differ between the two?
-When the stacks favor me (although a small favor) the most I think I would just fold and hope a player(s) will bust before I do.
-When the stacks do not favor me I think I would just push any two from any position and go out with a blaze.
For being the average (5k) stack:
How would you position the other stacks so that it favors you the most?
-I think my goal as the average stack is to steal from the other average stacks, swallow the small stacks when I have a good hand, and to avoid big pots with big stacks and leaking chips to them so this, once again, immediately eliminates the biggest stacks being to my immediate right.
-Right now I am thinking that just having the same layout that favors the biggest stack and go 9k, 8k, 7k, 6k, 5k (me), 4k, 3k, 2k, 1k may actually favor me the most, but since there is only a limited amount of favor (both big stack and me cannot share) I want to think of another layout that might be better.
-Maybe something like this might work? :
-This layout keeps the average stacks closest to me, the shorter stacks to my left and the stacks I want to die away from me near the big stack (the most dangerous) that is furthest away.
How would you position the other stacks so that it hinders you the most?
-Again, the big stack being on our immediate right will be a big problem so on our right he goes.
-Having another big stack on our left, however, would also suck as we are now stuck between a rock and a hard-place and it really [censored] with our mobility to gain chips from either end.
-The rest of the stacks I will probably have cascading down (alternating) like my staircase but in the other direction like so:
How would your strategy differ between the two?
-In a favorable position I think we can revert to normal tournament strategy for the average stack and steal some blinds and stay out of big pots with the bigger stacks and wait for hands while we wait for the small stacks to bust (hopefully to us so we can increase our stack position).
-In an unfavorable position I think we are pretty much [censored] and I think I would scratch and claw my way out of that hole with any little edge I can find (or maybe even slightly negative “edge” if the big stack is willing to gamble). Is this wrong? Probably, but from the position we are in it looks like we are screwed anyways, so might as well gamble it up and try and double through a big stack if he is willing to risk squashing me.
I am not an MTTer, but I thought this might spur some good discussion, so have at it and rip it apat and reply with your own thoughts on what stack positions would be beneficial/harmful with respect to our stack size. I’d really like to get better at MTTs.
Thanks for reading,
Fuji
This was great brain food. I think it would benefit everybody to think about what might be the best way to play if we were the 1) smallest stack or 2) average (median) stack.
So at our fictional nine-handed final table we would have stacks of
1k, 2k, 3k, ..., 9k.
For both scenarios of being the 1k stack and the 5k stack:
How would you position the other stacks so that it favors you the most?
How would you position the other stacks so that it hinders you the most?
How would your strategy differ between the two?
For being the smallest (1k) stack:
How would you position the other stacks so that it favors you the most?
-I think my goal as a short-stack is to get higher up in the money, so I want big stacks to have position on some small stacks.
-Since its beneficial for a big stack to have small stacks on its left I would not want a big stack on my right. But does that mean I want a big stack on my left? I don’t think that would be good, because the big stack would be more likely to call my desperation steals than a medium stack (as long as I had more than a few big blinds as the shortest stack).
-So my idea of the best stack positions would be me with the biggest stack across from me with the other stacks aligned so that they decrease on both sides from the big stack with the stacks alternating sides filling up the positions closest to me starting on my left (sort of like those fancy double staircases we’ve all seen in movies going up in like a curve with me being between the two at the bottom).
-So if I am in the 1 seat, I want the next smallest in the 2, then the next smallest in the 9, then the next smallest in the 3, then the next smallest in the 8, and so on until we get to the big stack that will be sitting furthest away from me.
I think something like this would facilitate the death of players before me the quickest if I have enough to survive and move up in the money.
How would you position the other stacks so that it hinders you the most?
-This one I think is probably just the exact opposite in that we can go straight-off Gigabet’s post and say that pretty much any layout having the biggest stacks to your right is the worst for us as the smallest stack and that the other chip layouts will not matter very much.
How would your strategy differ between the two?
-When the stacks favor me (although a small favor) the most I think I would just fold and hope a player(s) will bust before I do.
-When the stacks do not favor me I think I would just push any two from any position and go out with a blaze.
For being the average (5k) stack:
How would you position the other stacks so that it favors you the most?
-I think my goal as the average stack is to steal from the other average stacks, swallow the small stacks when I have a good hand, and to avoid big pots with big stacks and leaking chips to them so this, once again, immediately eliminates the biggest stacks being to my immediate right.
-Right now I am thinking that just having the same layout that favors the biggest stack and go 9k, 8k, 7k, 6k, 5k (me), 4k, 3k, 2k, 1k may actually favor me the most, but since there is only a limited amount of favor (both big stack and me cannot share) I want to think of another layout that might be better.
-Maybe something like this might work? :
-This layout keeps the average stacks closest to me, the shorter stacks to my left and the stacks I want to die away from me near the big stack (the most dangerous) that is furthest away.
How would you position the other stacks so that it hinders you the most?
-Again, the big stack being on our immediate right will be a big problem so on our right he goes.
-Having another big stack on our left, however, would also suck as we are now stuck between a rock and a hard-place and it really [censored] with our mobility to gain chips from either end.
-The rest of the stacks I will probably have cascading down (alternating) like my staircase but in the other direction like so:
How would your strategy differ between the two?
-In a favorable position I think we can revert to normal tournament strategy for the average stack and steal some blinds and stay out of big pots with the bigger stacks and wait for hands while we wait for the small stacks to bust (hopefully to us so we can increase our stack position).
-In an unfavorable position I think we are pretty much [censored] and I think I would scratch and claw my way out of that hole with any little edge I can find (or maybe even slightly negative “edge” if the big stack is willing to gamble). Is this wrong? Probably, but from the position we are in it looks like we are screwed anyways, so might as well gamble it up and try and double through a big stack if he is willing to risk squashing me.
I am not an MTTer, but I thought this might spur some good discussion, so have at it and rip it apart, I’d really like to get better at MTTs.
Thanks for reading,
Fuji
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Instead of arguing, people should take the time and read the posts that try to contribute to the cause. Lots of efforts go into posts like these.
However, Fuji, when people arrive at your post they are already exhausted. Given the not really trivial subject matter the pure length and multitude of scenarios in your post is quite intimidating and I guess it will take some time before you get a response. I'll read it but give me a day or two.