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Old 08-17-2006, 10:10 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,634
Default Re: NL max buyin games? Casino/Floor people please read

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Rick, Randy, and all the others your input would be greatly appreciated.


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As usual I'll make you sorry you asked [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

In LA County the card clubs are starting to experiment a little so policies vary. Also, I'll address moving from a broken game to either an existing game or the broken game board, taking a voluntary table change, and moving from a must move (if you have must moves for games this small) to the main game(s). You really need sensible policies for all of these eventuallites. Keep in mind your policies should tend to gravitate toward what is good for the game, fair (and also appear fair to the casual player), easy on administrate, and not easily taken advantage of by the sharp player.

Note in the LA area in the smaller games fixed buy games dominate, but at least one club has a spread buy (i.e., The Bike with their 5-5 blind 300-500 spread buy). Yet the Bike also has a 3-5 blind $200 fixed buy game, the former game serves more as a transition game to the 5-10 $500 minimum buy game. Meanwhile, The Hustler used to have spread buys (e.g., 2-5 blind with a 100-300 spread) but has switched to fixed buys (this game now has a $300 fixed). Whether a game has a spread or fixed buy, the policy can fit either, i.e., if one requires that you start with the normal buy it is either the fixed or inside the spread.

For broken games I believe the best policy is to allow the player to take all his chips or chip up/down to the fixed buy or the spread. This satisfies most customers and seems fair; after all you want to give maximum flexiblity to players who just had their game dissapear. If players draw for seats and a couple don't get in, the amount of their stack should be noted on the board or in a floor's notebook.

For voluntary table changes most clubs in LA require that you start with the original buy-in. But Hawaiian Gardens, the club that started the fixed buy craze about six years ago (pre WPT poker boom), just went to a policy where you must take all your chips (if you have more than the fixed buy, if short stacked you must bring your chips up). (Note that the Commerce used to have this policy but switched.) Some may think this gives the advantage to the rat-holer, as discussed in the Party Poker Rathole Thread. But there are differences between the Party situation and B&M. At Party, the spread is 20 to 100 Big Blinds, where at Hawaiian Gardens the fixed buy is 33, 60, and 50 times the BB for the $100, $300, and $500/$1000 fixed buy games respectively. In the smaller game, playing a short stack has the huge disadvantage of paying a disproportionate collection, and the bigger games have a reasonable fixed buy where you still have some play beyond the flop. In addition, I believe B&M recreational players in a new game would look at table changes with big covering stacks as somewhat intimidating and unfair. In any event I played HG yesterday and developed a big stack in a bad game. I was looking to take advantage of the policy and change but the other two games were only slightly better. Had there been a game with some weak playing deep stacks, I'd change in a heartbeat. As it turned out, in my game I felt I was among the weaker playing deep stacks, so I left the casino to go home and play online [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

The new HG policy is worth a thread of its own, as was the Party fiasco. I do believe the realities of B&M play (where you have much worse players on average) give an unfair advantage to the sophisticated table changer if he can bring his deep stack in a fixed or spread buy game. For example, he spots a game where a couple bad players have gotten lucky and have deep stacks, he can get into that game with his deep stack and be a huge favorite to make a big score. At the same time I understand the opposite is true online on Party, where you have the ability to multi-table short stacks and get right back in after doubling up. It is clear how this must be annoying to the deep stack players and threatens to ruin the game. I also see Barry Greensteins's logic of not re-buying until he goes to the felt on the TV show High Stakes Poker, but he is playing against sophisticated deep stack players who are gambling. By playing solid cards he can turn 30K into 60K as a huge favorite. That's not chump change, even for Barry.

Regarding must moves, I believe the players should be forced to bring all their chips. This is because most must moves usually involve one game protecting one or two games (if you have more games you need to consider ditching the must move), so when must-moving you are essentially following players you just played with at the must move table into a main game. You should keep the chips in play as this would seem fair to most.

All these points are arguable of course, and feedback is welcome.

Regards,

Rick
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