[siegfriedandroy]

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i am basically just reading this thread trying to educate myself about what is happening, since I have little prior knowledge about these issues, and have not yet formed much of an opinion. You said that to claim a moral high ground, Israel should have tried diplomacy (but that you dont know whether Lebanon would have been able/willing to assist. But what if Israel did KNOW for certain that Lebanon was unable/unwilling. In this case, wouldn't any attempt at diplomacy be utterly useless?

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At this point by your logic all he can do is sit and watch his country being demolished.

I dont think he can order his troops south the fight the Hez, if he wants to -- I doubt if the Israeli's would let him.

So, today, all he can do is make calls for cease fire which will not happen in the security council (the US veto is ready) or hang around. A bad spot for the leader of a nation.

Now, if the Israeli's had ever been serious about getting the Lebanese to help route out the Hez, the time to ask was before the fighting (waiting a couple of days would have made little difference). At least then the claim to the moral high ground would have some traction.

The scale of the attack, the widespread nature, the willingness to offer the "at least we are not as bad the other guy" reason, the lack of any attempt at diplomacy -- the list is too long.

Both sides have descended into an abyss.

FWIW -- It is possible -- I just dont know -- that Lebanon would never have had the ability or willingness to deal with the Hez. But, this is not an excuse. To claim the moral high ground, additional serious efforts at diplomacy, to resolve the skirmish, were needed before all this.

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Ahhh... a logical voice from SMP arrives...greetings!

Re this question, diplomacy was already tried and was resolved in the form of UN Resolution 1559 which put the onus on the Lebanese government to ensure the disarmament of Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon. By virtue of their unwillingness or inability to do so (and most of us on the pro-Israeli side believe there is no practical difference in those two) diplomacy with Lebanon failed.

Dealing directly with Hezbollah is tantamount to negotiating with terrorists...philosophically an untenable situation for Israel. Despite that there was some brief talk of prisnoer exchanges...2 Israelis for 1000+ Arabs or something like that, without any talk of compliance with 1559.

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Thanks for the warm SMP welcome, bro! And I appreciate the info. Good thread...