[Copernicus]

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and how exactly have you been harmed by the patriot act?

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So I have to be harmed to have my freedoms reduced?

All the government has to do is label you a terrorist and you have no rights. Do they have any criteria they have to meet to label you a terrorist? No. So they can do it to anybody. They can detain you forever if they feel like it without ever having to charge you with a crime where you'll most likely be tortured and sodomized daily.

Am I supposed to trust the government's discretion on this? Well I don't. I'm not supposed to, thats why we have these rights in the first place.

P.S. I just threw in the torture and sodomy part for fun.

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I will go back to the EV discussion. The probability of the Patriot Act being used to harm you times the value of that harm (including emotional distress value, poor baby) vs the increased probability of a terrorist attack times the cost of that to you.

If you think they are even within orders of magnitude of each other, you are grossly underestimating the war we are in and the capabilities of the enemy.