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Old 05-10-2006, 02:59 PM
RubbleRobble RubbleRobble is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 107
Default Re: Minraising pre flop. WHY I don\'t think it\'s all-that-bad!

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OP: here is the reason why your OP logic doesnt work. a raise with a hand that does well in multiway pot is a very important weapon in limit hold em. this is because there is a betting limit, which means that you dont have all that much time to get your opponents to get their money in. another result of the betting limit is that if the pot is too small to warrent a call from them (from their perspective-- it depends on the cards they have at the time). Thus a PF raise makes the pot bigger, and lets you price yourself (or them) into the pot when you get a favorable flop.

In NLHE, however, we have a concept known as implied odds. if you hit a flop you like, you have access to their entire stack already, its not as important to make the pot big enough to hook them. you hook by betting an amount you think they will call.

Plus at NLHE players sit with 100 bet stacks, so the difference between a 5 way 5 bet stack and a 5 way 10 bet stack is not very significant.

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I understand this point, but the number of times you hit a flop compared to the number of times you take an opponent's whole stack is so low, I think the double sized pot is more than a minor change to profitable decisions you make post flop.

The idea of this minraise is to magnify your postflop decision profits because you're putting yourself at an advantage against hands that simply meet only limping criteria; you're imprvong your range while not improving theirs (as they have odds, whatever they called before theyre calling again)

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Not a single word of this makes sense to me. Who cares if you increase the pot by 1 bet for each limper? who reason you limp is because you hope to stack an unobservant opponent. the argument of "min-raise so that the times you dont stack someone, you get double the money" is bad. the value added to your total EV for limping hands like this comes almost entirely from stacking, taking the pot uncontested is almost irrelevant.

Let me also add that if you are doing this with all your hands that you arent putting in normal-person raises with, you are playing a weird version of twice the size game you should be playing (50nl compared to 25nl). while not ENTIRELY the same thing, minraising as a standard play like you describe with F you up when you look at your varience.
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