[thedarknight]

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Good post Vanessa.

The issue is not slow-rolling or asking to see hands. The issue is the double standard that so-called established pros place on newer players. It appears to me as if Vanessa made every attempt to correct and/or apologize for any potential impropriety at the table. Rather than say, "OK newbie -- no harm, no foul," the reactions varied pretty much based on the bitterness of the people involved.

If on The Circuit James Van Alstyne did talk about Vanessa not shaking his hand, he should be popped upside his head. Who cares. I watched Layne Flack in the 2004 US Poker Championships pretty much run away from the table after being busted out. He was not happy about being busted and I don't remember that being a topic of conversation -- no harm no foul.

The double-standards that the established players place on up-and-comers is nothing more than bitterness. They love the big prize pools that come with large fields but show nothing but animosity if someone breaks into their circle. And God forbid if that someone happens to be a woman.

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how do you know what the established pros feel about upcoming players? I think they don't give a rat's damn. U think Phil Ivey is getting jealous over amateurs? You haven't even listened to The Circuit and you're making statements on James Van Alstyne's etiquette. Listen to the Circuit first then judge.

Also if you think double standards are being placed, how come no one reported bad etiquette on Eric Schoenberg who also made it deep and is an attractive woman? To attribute her bad possible etiquette to lack of experience is a bit of a stretch. She's already played several tournaments, including several WSOP circuit events. I think she would eventually have an idea what proper etiquette is. And furthermore, when you were a noob, did you slow roll during your first live games? A total noob would usually not have the idea to slowroll by saying "nice hand" then flipping up quads.

Before we keep continuing this on and on, this is just a classic he/she said. In this case, the players said/she said. Jean and Liz aren't just make up $hit out of thin air, also it may not have been bad as what they have stated too.