[PlayaHata]

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Having ANY device that is not available through the poker client and available to EVERY player is UNETHICAL.

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What about a hand chart or an odds chart? That is not available on the party lobby so is that unethical to use? What about SSHE or TOP


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It is NOT a part of POKER,

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There will always be different variations of a specific game. And saying one variation is not valid simply because you are accustomed to a different form or poker is what is ludicrous.

Landscapes change in every sport/game. In boxing some matches are 12 rounds and some are 5. Some matches use specific gloves while others don't.

Poker also has these variations and different environments to play in. All of this will add subtle changes to the way the game is played. In hold em the 5/10 blind structure is different then 2/4. Just like there are speed SnG's and normal SnG's, and then B&M tourneys. All which are very different. No other form is more real then another though.

The landscape of internet poker is vastly different from B&M. Rules are different. Online I only have 15 seconds to act while B&M i can take several minutes. This doesn't mean that online poker is not "real" poker. It is just different. B&M I can muck my hand and no one ever gets to see it. I can't do this online, but that doesn't mean it is not "real" poker when someone looks up my hand history after the hand is over. Basically you can't compare B&M practices to online practices to conclude that a certain practice is unethical. They are two completely different landscapes. And poker is played differently in both places. Online you are allowed to use PT and PA Hud. This is a variation to B&M poker. This does not mean online poker is not "real" poker. Again it is just a different environment you are playing. You as a player just have to adjust with in that environment.

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i like your argument, you make extremely valid points. although i never said that online poker wasnt 'real' poker, but that just may have been your way of validating your point. maybe if you could clarify the point of 'real' poker.


but here is the thing. my argument is that the state of online poker is forever in 'peril', that there always exists some method of cheating the system to have an unfair advantage compared to the average player. card mapping for planet poker, multi accounts in MTTs on stars and party, to Bots on every major poker site. the state of online poker is in peril as the validity and security of this 'landscape' is at stake. as party is clearly having little or no interest in stopping the current spread of winholdem users (on the winholdem site they clearly explain how to circumvent the detection systems) the landscape of internet poker will soon face major turmoil as more and more players arm themselves with poker bots, poker card mappers, etc. any and all programs that can possibly give any amount of an edge will be acquired and used. and this is my qualms with internet poker.

i was hoping others would see that the spread of PT and other "allowed" poker programs is what spawned this spread of "program edge" but they are tirelessly defending their program. "if it is not banned by party, it must be ethical."

the fact is that the changing of the landscape of internet poker is what is causing internet poker to loose all validity and security.