two hands from last night
 

all PP 5/10 NL

Hand 1:

villian sat maybe 20 hands ago. this is the third time that i have reraised his open raise in these 20 hands or so. Both times previously he folded preflop. I definitely have a LAGgy image at the table, preflop raising probably close to 25% of my hands. It felt like he was going to call the preflop reraise this time out of principle.

Effective Stacks $1000.

Villian opens for 30, hero in CO reraises KdKs to 125, folded to villian who calls.

flops 8c9xQc (pot ~260). Villian checks, hero bets 200, villian raises to 600. Hero??

My thought is that I am either dead here (88, 99, or j10 (less likely, but i've seen stranger hands in these situations)), or I am solid favorite to his tptk or kq type hands (the other possibility is the AcXc), so my instinct was to just call the flop reraise and let villian hang himself on the turn w/ the intention of calling an all-in on almost any turn card except maybe a turned ace (and w/ the intention of pushing if checked to on the turn).

Is this line better than just pushing the flop? Does anybody find a fold here (are we deep enough for folding to even be an option here)? Any thoughts/input is appreciated.

Hand 2:

I have a similar table image, but no reads on villian #1 (he just sat down maybe 10 hands ago, and I didn't recognize him):

Effective Stacks ~1200.

Hero is in cutoff w/ KhQh. UTG limps (standard for UTG, doesn't mean a monster), Hero raises to 40, BB (villian) calls 40, UTG calls.

Flop 2h7c7h. pot ~130. check, check, check.

Turn: Jh. villian bets 100, UTG raises to 200, Hero calls 200, villian calls 200.

river: 5c. Pot ~730. Villian checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 350, villian goes all in, UTG folds, decision is on Hero to call his last 600 on this now ~$1,500 pot. Hero???

Does anybody find a fold here? Are we up against a boat/nut flush often enough to make folding even an option? My instinct was that you had to call, albeit cryingly, but my buddy who was over at my place watching was convinced it was a fold. thoughts???

sorry no hand converter, at work, technology-impaired, blah blah blah

Re: two hands from last night
 

Hand 1 is unfortunate but I think you should laydown. He's representing big, and if he doesn't do this often enough with AQ/KQ you have to HOPE he has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] where X isn't a 9, 10, or J and then only be a small favorite. That being said I like folding.

Hand 2 I don't think I can find a fold here, he's representing huge but it's just too tough, and for the times he does this with a lower flush/bare 7/busted A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] it ruins you. Call and hope for the best.

Re: two hands from last night
 

Hand 2- Why just call the turn? 7,2, or heart makes you a loser (or at least kills your action), and on the turn you are usually ahead. If you're not ahead any thinking player with a boat will put you all in on river anyways. Why let someone get away from their A7 when the river is a heart? Figure most players at this level don't lay down a big seven in this spot. Only hand you really lose value on is a low flush, but even then you likely get called. Get it in on the turn. If no one has a 7 or a flush you aren't making any more money on this hand anyways.

Re: two hands from last night
 

Hand #1 I would push all in on his repop on the flop. That's very likely a board he could be drawing on. Not to mention he could have AQ, if he truly is getting fed up with your aggressive style. There is a good chance he has you beat already, but on that board draw would be flashing through my head. And if he's on a draw, I want it all in there on the flop. The second hand is much more difficult. The hand is played so utterly bizarre. In hindsight he can only have 22 or 77... and if he had 22 and didn't make a move till the river he's a moron. Did he have quads? The problem is how the hand was played, and I know if I was in your spot with that clock ticking it would of been VERY difficult for me to drop a K-high flush. That's one of the luxury's you have when you get the stone nuts or close to it, you can trap many lesser hands... and you kinda have to pay it off.

Re: two hands from last night
 

Hand 2, I guess my thinking was along the lines of: I am either dominated or not already; turn can't help my hand (although I agree it could potentially kill my action of the cards you mentioned fall), so just call and let the binker hang himself on the river since if he has me beat already he's getting all of my money anyway. That said, i think my usual line is to reraise the binker on this board w/ my hand w/ the thinking that I have the best hand and want action now while villian binker still likes his hand. So, I am not necessarily defending my smooth call now (e.g. you're probably right), but that was the thinking behind it.

Re: two hands from last night
 

Re: hand 1, what about the fact that I got 25bb in the pot preflop, w/ only about another 70bb behind, avoided the ace on the flop, have the image of a man who is reraising preflop w/ as wide a range as: aq+, 1010+ (and maybe even wider in villian's mind), and have the image of somebody who will continuation that preflop bet 100 times out of 100, whether i smacked it or not. Does that tip the scale to a call?

only hands i am terrified of are 88, 99, 10J - is that a wide enough range to fold w/ only 70bb behind, esp w. the metagame stuff i just mentioned?

if you are familiar w/ the 5-10 or 10-20 NL party games, pm me and I'll tell you my handle - may make a difference in the analysis...

Re: two hands from last night
 

my buddy who was over had half of my action on both hands and he begged for folds on both hands and i obliged. If it were me by myself I am getting it all in w/ both of them. I respect my buddy's game alot, but was shocked that we saw these hands in such different lights. So i thought i'd get your guyses opinions. these two hands have been beating me up all night and into today though.

So to answer your question I don't know what villian had in either hand.

Re: two hands from last night
 

And I definatly see where you're coming from too. If you are fully commited to getting it all in on the turn, then it's an ok play. Problem is, there are like 15 scare cards that SHOULD make you think twice about getting it all in there on the turn. The stop and go play you're talking about is best used on a non drawing board. The sad part is if he's drawing you're not really a big favorite. I like to follow the old adage of never give a free one... but your play is completely justifiable, as long as you are 90% committed to getting it in there on the turn. That my rule for slow playing hands, I better be damn sure I'm going to go with the hand when the scare cards hits, or else I'll put myself in too many difficult decisions.

Re: two hands from last night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Re: hand 1, what about the fact that I got 25bb in the pot preflop, w/ only about another 70bb behind, avoided the ace on the flop, have the image of a man who is reraising preflop w/ as wide a range as: aq+, 1010+ (and maybe even wider in villian's mind), and have the image of somebody who will continuation that preflop bet 100 times out of 100, whether i smacked it or not. Does that tip the scale to a call?

only hands i am terrified of are 88, 99, 10J - is that a wide enough range to fold w/ only 70bb behind, esp w. the metagame stuff i just mentioned?

if you are familiar w/ the 5-10 or 10-20 NL party games, pm me and I'll tell you my handle - may make a difference in the analysis...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not familiar sorry, but I understand you're thoughts in hand 1. I think that is very 50/50 to call or fold. I don't think fold or AI will significantly change your EV given his range. Hand 2 outcome might be different if you called in hand 1. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Moral of the story: One player to a hand.