live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

hi everyone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

i have quite an argument with my friend, he claims that live poker games are a completely different thing than online poker games, because of the tells.

however i think, that in both forms, live and online, the most important thing is to play good solid poker, based on things like how many hands does my opponent play, how aggressive is he, is he tricky or straightforward, how much does he bluff and in what situations, does he steal a lot,.... and so on.

tells, wether live or online, are "only" a factor that needs to be considered in your decision making process, but they don´t completely turn the game upside down. sometimes this tells factor may be very big, that is when you have a really strong read on someone. then you may want to alter your "basic strategy" by a lot, but this is usually the exception.

this is only my assumption. i have almost no live game experience, maybe 50 hands all in all. but i´ve played an estimated 500k hands online.

thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts on this [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

p.s. tried the search, but couldnt come up with anything. if there was already a discussion on this subject, please provide me the link. thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

I never play fewer than four tables online - but perhaps a lot of the live game "reads" you make are due to simply concentrating on one game. And if you see a player make a certain play, seeing his face will really allow you to remember that play. Have you ever sat at an LHE table with 9 people and basically known (roughly) how they will all play? That has to increase your edge a lot, especially at middle limits like 30/60 where some players are really good and some are atrocious. Also, your own ability to project an image over a table is increased. Players remember how you are playing better because they see your face - if you are bringing it in a lot from the steal seats and iso-popping a lot they will be a lot more likely to make loose calls and call down than if you are that Random Guy #6 at the Pokerroom table.

Plus, live games aren't rigged (as often).

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

I've been playing a lot of B&M poker lately because there's more money to be made (the terrible players are terrible at higher dollar levels).

I've been able to pick up visual tells three times in my 26 sessions this year (ie. I saw one guy motion to grab $6 to check-raise my flop bet; he checked the turn and I checked behind because of what I saw [I had TPGK]; he bet the river and I folded; he showed me his flopped straight).

With some plays at B&M they also telegraph their intention to fold or call/raise. It's good for a look downstream before I act.

To me it's still much more valuable to study betting patterns (who'll raise with a draw, who won't bet without at least top pair, etc.). Those are the same live or online.

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

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To me it's still much more valuable to study betting patterns (who'll raise with a draw, who won't bet without at least top pair, etc.). Those are the same live or online.

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Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

I think the game is the same, but people who get in a car and drive for an hour or more to go to a casino want to gamble not sit and wait for premium hands because at 35 to 40 hands an hour it is easily conceivable that you could sit an hour without playing a hand, so with more people willing to play marginal hands the games are loose, more big pots and probably more bad beats per hands played but probably more lucrative than single tabling online.

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

Due to rake structure, transportation costs, tips, etc. I think online is a better game. That aside, the most important tells in the games I play in are betting patterns. What about false tells? Do you take this into account?

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

In my opinion, most (not all) players who say that "live poker is totally different because of tells" really don't understand where most of the information in poker comes from.

In other words, players who rely a lot on physical tells are often doing so because they are poor analytical hand-readers and have a poor theoretical grasp on the game.

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

Its not a completely different game, and betting patterns are probably more important than physical tells. But that said there is much that can be picked up if you pay attention live and I think in certain games it can dramatically increase your edge.

For instance, there was this one guy who was a solid player, and generally winning money from the rest of a terrible table, but he had some really obvious tells in how he put his chips in the pot, that telegraphed if he was strong or not. I could play any two cards against him, and win almost any pot. By the end he was making comments like, "I know you're bluffing but I never catch you with a good hand." I was completely card dead that night, but still made a profit.

This was an extreme example, and normally I wouldn't overvalue a physical tell like this, but I do think smaller versions of this add up.

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

I play NL (small stakes), and the biggest difference I notice between live and online play is how infrequently live players bet in accordance to the pot size. They seem to concentrate on the "absolute" value of money more than the "relative" value of money compared to the pot.

Re: live game vs online: is it a completely diffierent game?
 

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I play NL (small stakes), and the biggest difference I notice between live and online play is how infrequently live players bet in accordance to the pot size. They seem to concentrate on the "absolute" value of money more than the "relative" value of money compared to the pot.

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Very very true for my home games. $10 is a big bet to the table, regardless if the pot is $10 or $30.