TPTK on multi-draw board
 

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

This raise is of course to protect my hand from overs and gutshots and I still think it is correct.

However, I wonder if there is someone advocating to wait until the turn to raise. If the turn card completes a draw I can easily fold if there is action but if it is a blank, 2 cold will maybe force some more people out (given the aggressor continues betting, of course).

Then again, even 2 cold on the turn will not drive a flush draw or an OESD out.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

Raise pf the first time.

Other than that, this is standard. The raise protects your hand versus a lot of hands. I wouldn't wait till the turn to raise anyway, but I don't see how this can be done without position.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

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Raise pf the first time.

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Hm, I'm not so sure about raising AJo in EP. SSHE says not to.

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Other than that, this is standard. The raise protects your hand versus a lot of hands. I wouldn't wait till the turn to raise anyway, but I don't see how this can be done without position.

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Good to see someone with more experience agree [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .

Thanks.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

i have problems with hands like this, too. i would normally raise here. after rereading SSH, i found a similar hand in it: page 118. its categorised as a marginal hand. if you have a small edge on the flop, half of the deck is scary for you. call and push your edge on the turn if a blank falls.

belonging to the action preflop, im really helpless without any reads. thats why i like to open-raise AJ. i know, im behind if i get reraised and can play my toppair more comfortable when i was the preflop aggressor.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

[ QUOTE ]

i have problems with hands like this, too. i would normally raise here. after rereading SSH, i found a similar hand in it: page 118. its categorised as a marginal hand. if you have a small edge on the flop, half of the deck is scary for you. call and push your edge on the turn if a blank falls.

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It's just too risky. It's nice pushing our edge on the turn, but we drain a ton of equity when that turn gets checked through, and a lot of hands will do that.

we need position for this play, and a bunch of callers between us. We have a chance to make the field call two cold so let's do it. Giving the field 5:1, we fold a lot of stuff.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

If you check/call this flop evryone else is calling. If you are ahead of the CO and the turn doesn't improve him he is most likely checking. Someone else may decide to bet the turn also. Your given a chance on the flop to face everyone with two bets so do it. There is a strong possibility you will not get that chance on the turn if your hand is currently best. Raise pre flop.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

I's funny everyone tells me to raise pf. SSHE states to only limp with AJo in EP no matter how loose the game is and that table was somehow on the upper end of the "tight" section (though definitely not "loose").

I see that TP plays easier if I was the aggressor but in this spot having the pf aggressor to my right actually was a good thing -- I could go for a c/r on the flop.

An argument for raising probabely is that AJ is mainly dominated by hands that would likely 3-bet (AQ, AK). So if someone 3-bets I know I'm likely behind.

Also raising pf would probably have shut out the people that hit their gutshot on the river [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] . But this I could not know of course.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

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SSH page 118.
Ac Jd on a board Jc Ts 8s
This is a marginal hand. You have top pair with the best kicker, but you are very vulnerable. A third spade could give someone a flush. Running spade will almost always sink you. A queen, nine or seven puts four to a straight on the board. Also, it is likely that someone flopped two pair; people often play hands like JT or T8. If you have the best hand, someone is likely to draw out. If you are behind you are drawing slim. If someone flopped a straight, you are drawin nearly dead.
Also, anyone who holds a nine and has made a pair with his other card has many outs to beat you and will frequently play his hand strongly on the flop. This will make it difficult to read your opponent's hand, increasing the chance that you will make a playing error on 4th or 5th street. this further dimishes the value of your hand.

page 130
...learn to evaluate the strength of your pair hands accurately. Many loose and overaggressive players make critical errorshere. They jam top pair against 3 or 4 opponents when the coordinated board strongly devalues their hand.

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i have no clue how to handle this specific situation (im just a beginner) and wanted to throw in what i might have "learnd".

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

This seems to advocate only calling the flop and then betting or c/r the turn if a blank comes. I'm not convinced yet, Buckmulligan's argument about the turn getting checked through is strong. Our position is terrible.

Re: TPTK on multi-draw board
 

Though probabely not too important the following is interesting to note: Although I (most likely) had the best hand on the flop I was not the favourite for the hand. I didn't even have equity! MP1 had Q7d, MP3 97, giving the following equities:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 24.7561 % 23.32% 01.44% { AsJh }
Hand 2: 45.5663 % 43.66% 01.90% { Qd7d }
Hand 3: 10.7609 % 10.12% 00.64% { 9h7c }
Hand 4: 18.9166 % 16.22% 02.70% { 99+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo }

I don't have good reads on CO, he seemed somewhat sensible though.