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-   -   1/2 - Unpaired AK betting on rag board (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=62244)

DReid2006 03-15-2006 07:55 PM

1/2 - Unpaired AK betting on rag board
 
Recently sat down, new table with no reads. Game is fairly tight with average pots of 4BB's and 30% view flop.

Hero is in SB with AsKh

2 folds, EP limps, 4 folds, Button limps, HERO raises, BB and both limpers call.

flop 2h 3s 4s (8 SB / 4 BB)

HERO bets, BB raises, fold around, I call.

Turn: 2d (6BB)

Hero bets, BB calls.

River: 8s

Hero checks, BB checks.

I thought he was drawing on the flop, so I figured if I checked the turn I would probably call his bet and still not have very much information. I bet again, planning to fold to a raise.

Should I have check/folded on the turn after his flop raise?

JoeyFrogs 03-15-2006 08:41 PM

Re: 1/2 - Unpaired AK betting on rag board
 
I don't mind the flop call.

I believe you should check/call the turn. I believe this lets you save the most money in the end. I dont think that this is a spot for a check/fold.

On the turn I think checking is actually the play here that will make the most (lose the least when are behind). I want to show this hand down.

DReid2006 03-16-2006 12:27 AM

Re: 1/2 - Unpaired AK betting on rag board
 
Hmm, I think that depends on how you want to play the river. Basically, if I check/call the turn, do I call a bet on the river if I check and he bets?

JoeyFrogs 03-16-2006 01:16 AM

Re: 1/2 - Unpaired AK betting on rag board
 
If a guy fires three times like that, I will fold the river.

Unless the person is a compelete maniac I believe he has a PP here most times. Would this be considered a WA/WB situation?

I am interested in hearing what other (more experienced) people think of this hand. After c/c the turn, I c/f the river. Another A not bluff at the river. Only hands that beat you will bet.

FlopDonkey 03-16-2006 03:39 AM

Re: 1/2 - Unpaired AK betting on rag board
 
At 1/2 anybody with an ace or a 5 is going to raise that flop most of the time. This guy may just be the typical 1/2 person. Anyone with any two flush cards is going to call regardless of what happens here. We know he didnt hit the flush or he would have bet on the river.. although I have seen people check straight flushes on every street being the first to act at 1/2 so..
Without knowing much about a player, and him being in the BB, I would think he has atleast an ace or a pocket pair here since he called your raise pf and raised you on the flop. I would probably give him credit for an over pair to the board after his call on the turn though, since you said the table was tight.
Honestly I wouldnt have played the hand like this at all. In the sb, you are going to have the worst position post flop and AK is still a drawing hand. All you are doing by raising is giving everyone else better pot odds after the flop when you whiff and try to buy the pot. If you play 1/2 all the time you know your raise isnt going to drive anyone out of the pot there. So you have to ask yourself, why do it? To build a pot when you dont have a hand yet so you can bet out of position every street after? Im not trying to be smart, honestly. I think you threw the guy off by just calling his flop raise and then leading out again on the turn. I think that was a good set up to win the pot on the river, if you think he can fold to a bet on the river. His call stinks of a pair and he hopes you didnt trip up on that 2. At 1/2 he could have KTos and make the same play, I have seen just about everything at that limit.
I see people playing AK like this all the time. Those are the people I like to catch on flops just like this. At best in situations like this you are going to split the pot and if you are lucky you will out kick some other ace if they dont end up hitting a pair.
I think after playing through the turn the way you did, you have to bet the river here to give yourself the best chance to win the pot. If the table is tight then it typically means they are paying some attention. Well we know he didnt like the turn card or he would have raised you again, so that 3rd spade on the river must terrify him. You raised pf too, which gives you some credibility in the hand, and you led out on the turn which further demonstrates you have a strong hand.
Now about your question about check/folding the turn after his flop raise. I dont know, you may be giving away too much there, but I dont like the idea of playing basically for a gutshot and possibly 3 kings as outs. Of course if he has a nonpaired ace hand then you are in the lead, which is a possibility at 1/2. Plus if the guy is somewhat smart even if you do make a hand he isnt going to pay you off when you do bet the river. Again since you are first to act he gets his info first so he could easily have a worse hand and steal from you on the river when you check. That is assuming you will fold ace high.
Poker is interesting because I mean who is to say you played the hand wrong? Im not an EV kind of person, but having a good understanding of pot odds can go a long way. I mean maybe you could have reraised his flop bet, and taken the lead on both streets, or tried for a check raise on the turn and led out on the river. Poker is very situational. Knowing your opponent is the best weapon you can have, I think. I just dont see the profit in battling out an AK at 1/2 when you dont really flop much. I think you can find much better situations than this to put your money in a pot.


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