This never works. Why does this never work?
 

Villain is 24/15/3 over 300 hands, has raised enough of my cbets for me to think he's doing it with a ride range. But keep in mind that the flop is 4 ways so I'm not sure leading is best. He might be taking a stab at it, so I'm expecting the turn to be checked back a lot, or he'll bet and I'll have to call- but I rarely expect to be shoved on when I lead and it gives me fold equity, etc.

Thoughts on this and a better way perhaps?

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($253.43)
UTG ($74)
MP ($425.65)
Offtheheezymanupeezy ($205.05)
Button ($197)
SB ($79)

Preflop: Offtheheezymanupeezy is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Offtheheezymanupeezy raises to $8</font>, Button calls $8, SB calls $7, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($32) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Offtheheezymanupeezy checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $16</font>, SB folds, BB folds, Offtheheezymanupeezy calls $16.

Turn: ($64) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Offtheheezymanupeezy bets $39</font>, Button calls $39.

River: ($142) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Offtheheezymanupeezy checks or shoves??

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

You raise preflop, c/c the flop then lead the turn on a jack??? What are you representing?

The turn changes nothing and almost always gets called by better.

If you really must semi-bluff this hand, c/r the turn.

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

I would have c/r the turn. It accomplishes 2 things. It possibly folds a weak Q/J from the button if the c/r whiffs on the turn the free card isn't bad either.

Were you going for a b/3b on the turn? If so, bet more so that you can get all in.

SMS

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

I'd just bet the flop so you can actually rep a queen or an overpair or a set, you don't really rep anything strong with a c/c and 1/2 pot bet on turn.

SB/BB unlikely have anything and if they c/r you can fold or call or whatever, but if BTN raises your c-bet and the blinds fold you can shove since he's raising your c-bets with a wide range.

I think it's more of a reason to bet flop if he's been raising you wide - what would you do with AQ there? Probably bet to build a pot right?

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

If you bet turn i think you have to make it a little larger--&gt; like $45; though TBH i might be tempted to CRAI, don't know if that's a leak.

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

Here was my thinking- a flop bet sucks. Because it's 4 way and I have a hand that I want to see some more cards with and getting raised isn't great. So it's kind of a bluff (?) maybe not, I dunno. On the turn I didn't want him to pot it, and I wanted to get some FE rather than c/c (and build a pot in case he checks back) since I have a ton of outs. I'd have shoved if he raised. I know I don't really rep anything, but for him to take a 1/2 pot stab on the flop I don't think he has a lot most of the time either. Maybe a c/r all in is better here

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

bet flop

/thread

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here was my thinking- a flop bet sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? If anyone has a queen, we have 47% equity if they don't have KQ. If they don't have anything, I don't want an ace to come to give them the best hand for free. If they have a set, money was going in anyways, you should try and get it in when you have the most equity. If you win a small pot, who care - they likely weren't catching up enough to win a big pot (maybe the Ad, the diamond they need to make a set).

Just bet the flop.

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

You need to bet the flop here without question. You want to be betting not representing the flush, leave some ambiguity to what you have. Hopefully you get a call not a raise, cause a cold call on the flop could lead to some thinking weakness. As always could re pop, which ehh I try not to do unless have good read on player. Regardless leading on the flop allows you multiple options on turn. BET FLOP

Re: This never works. Why does this never work?
 

Bet flop, as played with C/C I´d rather CRAI turn then lead for 1/2-pot...