NL25 - easy fold??
 

I called the pre flop raise for set value... stats: 45/4,5/1.6 44hands

his bet was pretty weak, but I made the plan? folding is -EV?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($57.95)
Hero ($32.80)
BB ($23.90)
UTG ($8)
MP ($41.95)
CO ($21.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $6</font>, Button folds, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($13) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $4.5</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $13

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

Why not bet out on the flop?

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

I think I'd still cbet this flop. Fold to a reraise or proceed with caution if he calls.

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why not bet out on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

Hero can't cbet this flop. BB was the final raiser.

If hero bets oop, it's a donk.

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

I would typically donk this flop, but with these stats the villain's four bet oop makes me feel like he's range got u crushed... If u get raised fold.. His flop bet is weak (but also a typical bet at these stakes with a strong hand).. Any reads on his betting patterns from earlier hands?

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would typically donk this flop, but with these stats the villain's four bet oop makes me feel like he's range got u crushed... If u get raised fold.. His flop bet is weak (but also a typical bet at these stakes with a strong hand).. Any reads on his betting patterns from earlier hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

donking this flop sucks...
if you get called what do you want to do?
if he folds well you just folded out a worse hand...
if he raises you´re [censored]...
your main problem is the way you played preflop. you have to make a decision right there. you can´t call for set value and you apparently didn´t want to call for overpair value. why do you call if you fold to a cbet since villain will obv cbet AK and also AA or KK or whatever a high % of the time.
Imo you screwed up preflop big time and that is why you battling on the flop. c/f really sucks though.

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

The problem with leading in this situation is that villain can easily fold out the hands that we beat, mainly AK and maybe even TT, as its pretty obvious he has very little fold equity if we bet like $8.

Soo, unless we have been out of line, I think c/f is the best play.

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

One thing that is definite is that you cant "just call". You have to either push all in or fold.

Given the preflop action I think it is safe to assume that he either has a monster (like a big pair) or air (like AJ/AK/AQ). An argument could be made for pushing just on the small size of his bet but given how unpredictable these players are with their bet sizing, it doesnt tell us too much.

Remember also that if he has AKdd then you're actually behind. I think I can just fold this one and move on. He only has a 4.5pfr, which means that his 3betting range is likely to be pretty small.

Re: NL25 - easy fold??
 

I am struggling with these situations also, after the first replies suggest to donk this flop, the later ones suggest c/f.

But against a range of the other JJ combo, QQ+, AQ, AK you still have like 50% equity. If you are not planning on betting this flop (hoping to take the pot down), then you aren't basically betting any flop without a J.

I read somewhere else that you need to make about 11.6 times your initial investment to justify calling for setvalue. Since you call the 4bet for $2.5, you need to make $30 dollars on average. I think this unrealistic, so then I should suggest folding to 4bet preflop is better.