7-Stud ruling question
 

7 card stud hand:

Guy checks blind on the end. I bet. Guy looks at his down cards, looks at the board, looks back at his down cards, and says "you got it." He then scoops up his board cards with his three down cards, so he's looking at his entire seven-card hand home game style (so the backs of all his cards are facing me).
I ask, "Are you folding?"
He says, "yeah, you got it." About two seconds later he says, "Oh, wait a minute, I raise!"

I call the floor who says . . . ?

Thanks,

Michael

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

If you asked exactly "are you folding" and he said exactly "yeah, you got it", then he has folded.

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

He folded before you asked him.

Robert's Rules:

10. If you pick up your upcards without calling when facing a wager, this is a fold and your hand is dead. This act has no significance at the showdown because betting is over; the hand is live until discarded.

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

If he still has his cards, then saying "you got it" isn't going to be ruled a fold in most Las Vegas rooms.

He'll probably be warned about manipulating his cards in an inproper way (turning over the upcards).

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

Saying "you got it" at showdown is not binding at all. When asked, "Are you folding?" and answering in the affirmative, while at the same time picking up the cards while facing a bet, is a different scenario, and technically a fold. However, I can certainly see the floor allowing a call, so tread carefully.

As with everything, "it depends". The other day I was in a 4/8 game shorthanded with two props. One of the angrier and more difficult players (management-wise; he's a total donk) was the low card, but folded. After it was pointed out to him (again) that he was low, he threw out his dollar. Then he asked for his cards back. The props staunchly objected, the floor came over, the mucker was grumpy, the floor said too bad.

Now, this guy has a history, and the floor said to deal the grumpy guy (who was still complaining) out of the next hand. They eventually went away to chat, grumps came back, ranted some more, was told to STFU, threw a hissy, left the game, then like an addict returned ten minutes later, still bitching.

Now, had he been a generally nice and agreeable guy, it's conceivable those in the game would have allowed him the cards back (as there was no other muck). And had he merely turned his card over without mucking, I'm sure the floor would even allow it to play (again assuming he was a nice person).

Tho' to be fair to the mucker, the dealers in this room follow a wide range of their own personal rulebooks and enforcement policies, so it was "reasonable" to expect his cards back, but he's an angry jerk, and it was only a dollar, and his hand was crap anyway, so it's stupid of him to complain in the first place.

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

[ QUOTE ]


I call the floor who says . . . ?



[/ QUOTE ]

Origami...
Its folded...

When he shows it turns out you won anyway...
(sounds to me like he was looking flush found a straight...)

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, I can certainly see the floor allowing a call, so tread carefully.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incidentally, this is one place you probably don't want to mumble. If you ask, "Do you fold?" and someone only hears the verb, they could try to impose all kinds of goofy verbally binding declarations on you. I've tried to make a habit to always ask, "Have you acted?" or "What's the action to me?" rather than name an action, because once I got stuck checking at Foxwoods when I really had asked if it was checked to me.

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

[ QUOTE ]
...I've tried to make a habit to always ask, "Have you acted?" or "What's the action to me?" rather than name an action...

[/ QUOTE ]

Great advice.

~ Rick

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Robert's Rules:

10. If you pick up your upcards without calling when facing a wager, this is a fold and your hand is dead. This act has no significance at the showdown because betting is over; the hand is live until discarded

[/ QUOTE ] Absolutly correct. The hand is dead.

Re: 7-Stud ruling question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Robert's Rules:

10. If you pick up your upcards without calling when facing a wager, this is a fold and your hand is dead. This act has no significance at the showdown because betting is over; the hand is live until discarded

[/ QUOTE ] Absolutly correct. The hand is dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto... here is the thing.. if all cards are now facing him... and he raises... how do we know that he is going to "re-display" the correct "up" cards.

Abosolutely a fold... if floor man ruled otherwise... raise holly -hell.