My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

Lots of people ask me about this. Do humans have free will?

Well if you are going to discuss this question rigorously, it is imperative that you define what you mean by "free will" in very precise technical terms. On the other hand, even though it might be very difficult to come up with this technical, precise definition, the fact is that free will is a lot like what pornography was to that judge. "I know it when I see it".

I'm pretty sure that I have the jist of a proof that free will exists. Intuitively I am almost certain of it. But to turn this general idea into a rigorous proof would probably require a Godel type logician. Mere hi fallooin philosophers are probably not smart enough. I might be able to do it myself but I have got a poker tournament to deal with.

Anyway, it seems to me that somewhere out there in logicland, a proof of free will can be constructed from the simple fact that PEOPLE WONDER (AND DISCUSS) WHETHER THEY HAVE FREE WILL.

If Bertrand Russel were alive, I am almost sure he could elaborate.

Re: My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

nsfw

Re: My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

Sort of like a "I think, there I am" notion.

Obligatory Shannon quote
 

Claude Shannon, when asked if machines can think: "I'm a machine and you're a machine, and we both think, don't we?"

Optional starbird quote: "The difference between a human being, and, say, a dinner plate, is that the plate lacks the illusion of free will."

Re: Obligatory Shannon quote
 

Like you say, it all comes down do definitions. I personally think we are deterministic in a random environment. That is I think if you reproduced the universe exactly, down to quantum states that were collapsed into and not, you would get the same decision from a human every single time.

Starbird, I like that second quote a lot.

Re: My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

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Mere hi fallooin philosophers are probably not smart enough. I might be able to do it myself but I have got a poker tournament to deal with.


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Sklansky posts are starting to grow on me.

Re: My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

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I'm pretty sure that I have the jist of a proof that free will exists. Intuitively I am almost certain of it.

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well, just scribble in a margin somewhere.

luckyme

Re: My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

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Well if you are going to discuss this question rigorously, it is imperative that you define what you mean by "free will" in very precise technical terms.

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Can I choose 'anything'? no, that would make it 'random will' and there would be no sense of "I" making choices.
Will there be a reason I made a choice? Then it would be constrained by preconditions.

My own approach is the "assumed free will" and I await the fermatian margin notes that clarify it for me.
Dennett's "Freedom Evolves" seems on the right track but not quite at the station.

luckyme

Re: My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

very good despite the repeated contradiction.

chez

Re: My Basic Thought On Free Will
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well if you are going to discuss this question rigorously, it is imperative that you define what you mean by "free will" in very precise technical terms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I choose 'anything'? no, that would make it 'random will' and there would be no sense of "I" making choices.
Will there be a reason I made a choice? Then it would be constrained by preconditions.

My own approach is the "assumed free will" and I await the fermatian margin notes that clarify it for me.
Dennett's "Freedom Evolves" seems on the right track but not quite at the station.

luckyme

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The sort of freedom Dennett talks about is consistent with us having no free-will in the sense people usually mean, its simply consistent with determinism. Its also probably sufficient to produce creature that wonder about free-will which would make the op not very profound.

As for DS's post (an idea I've seen somewhere before, can't remember where) it just sounds like it refers to this deterministic free-will or is an abuse of language

If Wittgenstein or Shopenhower were alive ...

chez