(60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

How about now?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP1 (t1460)
Hero (t1490)
CO (t3050)
Button (t1250)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1440)
UTG (t1830)
UTG+1 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t180</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t460</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t740</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t1020</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="black"> Hero ???</font>

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

call

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

QQ?

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

who is the bb? anyone you recognise? with no reads at all, i think it's a very reluctant call.

i had one last week, first time i ever folded KK preflop, and probably the last

PokerStars Game #6888805131: Tournament #35127970, $55+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/11/04 - 08:30:59 (ET)
Table '35127970 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: debrisfish (1690 in chips)
Seat 2: daveethr (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: Fat Afghan (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: ThreeBet (1460 in chips)
Seat 5: Mango99 (760 in chips)
Seat 6: one sad dog (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: nxtgushansen (2410 in chips)
Seat 8: spoonieluv40 (1440 in chips)
Seat 9: LIONELCO (1270 in chips)
daveethr: posts small blind 15
Fat Afghan: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fat Afghan [Kh Ks]
ThreeBet: calls 30
Mango99: calls 30
one sad dog: folds
nxtgushansen: folds
spoonieluv40: raises 120 to 150
LIONELCO has timed out
LIONELCO: folds
LIONELCO is sitting out
nxtgushansen is sitting out
debrisfish: raises 1540 to 1690 and is all-in
daveethr: calls 1485 and is all-in
Fat Afghan: folds
ThreeBet: folds
Mango99: folds
spoonieluv40: folds
spoonieluv40 said, "i guess JJ no good?"
*** FLOP *** [6c 7s 8s]
*** TURN *** [6c 7s 8s] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [6c 7s 8s Tc] [7d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
daveethr: shows [Ac Ah] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
debrisfish: shows [Th Ts] (a full house, Tens full of Sevens)
debrisfish collected 3240 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3240 | Rake 0
Board [6c 7s 8s Tc 7d]
Seat 1: debrisfish (button) showed [Th Ts] and won (3240) with a full house, Tens full of Sevens
Seat 2: daveethr (small blind) showed [Ac Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 3: Fat Afghan (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: ThreeBet folded before Flop
Seat 5: Mango99 folded before Flop
Seat 6: one sad dog folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: nxtgushansen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: spoonieluv40 folded before Flop
Seat 9: LIONELCO folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

Reads?

With a read I could fold here.

Ryan

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

no reads at all, except that it was early saturday morning

notice also that the UTG limped then raised after 3 people reraised...

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

This reply is to the first hand.

Lets assume that if you go all in you will get two callers. They have both invested a very high proportion of their stacks so that assumption should be reasonable.

The effective pot will therefore contain 3405 and you need to pay another 1030 which gives you potodds 1-3.3

Two likely situations:

1. One of the players have AA and the other player's hand range is JJ+,AKs, AK. This gives you a 15.3% winning chance.

2. Both players have the following handrange: JJ+(but NOT AA), AKs, AK. This gives you 59.5% winning chance.

So our expected winning chance become:
x*15.3%+y*59.5%
Where x and y is the likelyhood of event 1 and 2, respectively.

In order to call your winning chance should be more than 23.2% (better than your potodds):

0.153x+0.595y&gt;0.232
Or
0.153x+0.595*(1-x)&gt;0.232 since x+y=100%

So, if x&lt;82.2% you make a positive chip EV. Lets take your edge into account as well, and therefore only make the call if we think there is less than 70% chance that one of your opponents have AA.
I would push and expect to be out after this hand.

I am new at this forum and my English is not very good. I apologize if I have done something wrong according to the posting rules

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

Rikki,
You can't fold here because you are getting like 5:1

Re: (60) I know, never fold KK preflop... but...
 

Hand 1 I'd push I guess.

Other KK hand I'd be pushing my chips in quick.

All without reads this is.