NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago Rant)
 

Well, I know that everyone is going to say...it depends on your casino, but what I'm trying to find out is what other casinos do in these siuations. We've been having a big issue in the Chicago NL game at Resorts where different floor will ADAMANTLY rule one way or the other even on the same day. We even had one dealer who thought that she would arbitrarily decide based on her feel for the number of chips (not any strict guidelines, but her feeling on if that was enough money to constitute a raise depending on the bet size and not necessarily the intention of the player). Help me out with this so I can understand the reasoning of why or why not each is a raise (including intention, spirit of the game, etc).

1) First player bets out $100. Second player throws in $145 with multiple chips without saying anything. Is the second player forced to complete a minimum raise? Why or why not?

2) First player bets out $100. Second player throws in $150 with multiple chips without saying anything. Is the second player forced to complete a minimum raise? Why or why not?

3) First player bets out $100. Second player throws in $195 with multiple chips without saying anything. Is the second player forced to complete a minimum raise? Why or why not?

In all situations, assume that both players have a significant amount of money behind. Also, this is a NO-LIMIT game, not a LIMIT game.

Thanks everyone.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago Rant)
 

It's amazing how many problems would be cleared up if people would just say "raise to" or "make it".

I always do in part b/c it speeds up the game too, I can say "raise" and the next guy can do whatever he wants to do (in limit) while I'm still putting chips out.

I'm not a floor, but I think that these are all standard "unless you put out a full raise, it's a call' situations.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

[ QUOTE ]
We've been having a big issue in the Chicago NL game at Resorts where different floor will ADAMANTLY rule one way or the other even on the same day. We even had one dealer who thought that she would arbitrarily decide based on her feel ....

[/ QUOTE ]

You have more problems than just this specific ruling.
Get some other players together and talk with the Poker Room manager and tell him that you want consistent rulings (even if you do not agree with the "house rule").

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

I'm no expert but the rules I'm used to that case 1 is a call, case 3 is a minimum raise to $200. Case 2 the player has the choice of calling $100 or minimum raising to $200. I'm not a big fan of case 2 being that way because it can work as a sort of angle shot to see the reaction before deciding to raise or call, but that's the way I've seen it called.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no expert but the rules I'm used to that case 1 is a call, case 3 is a minimum raise to $200. Case 2 the player has the choice of calling $100 or minimum raising to $200. I'm not a big fan of case 2 being that way because it can work as a sort of angle shot to see the reaction before deciding to raise or call, but that's the way I've seen it called.

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I have seen it ruled the same.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

1) Take back your $45 Sir... thats a call. Betting is closed.

2) You are $50 short there Sir... thats a raise. Betting is open, next to act can CRF.

3) You are $5 short there Sir... thats a raise. Betting is open, next to act can CRF.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I know that everyone is going to say...it depends on your casino, but what I'm trying to find out is what other casinos do in these siuations. We've been having a big issue in the Chicago NL game at Resorts where different floor will ADAMANTLY rule one way or the other even on the same day. We even had one dealer who thought that she would arbitrarily decide based on her feel for the number of chips (not any strict guidelines, but her feeling on if that was enough money to constitute a raise depending on the bet size and not necessarily the intention of the player). Help me out with this so I can understand the reasoning of why or why not each is a raise (including intention, spirit of the game, etc).

1) First player bets out $100. Second player throws in $145 with multiple chips without saying anything. Is the second player forced to complete a minimum raise? Why or why not?

2) First player bets out $100. Second player throws in $150 with multiple chips without saying anything. Is the second player forced to complete a minimum raise? Why or why not?

3) First player bets out $100. Second player throws in $195 with multiple chips without saying anything. Is the second player forced to complete a minimum raise? Why or why not?

In all situations, assume that both players have a significant amount of money behind. Also, this is a NO-LIMIT game, not a LIMIT game.

Thanks everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

The third one is clearly a raise. The first two it depends on if the intent of the player can be determined (by the floor). Half a bet has no significance in NL, if there is not a finding that the player's clear intention was to raise it is a call.

edit to add: Yes I know we need better rules, better floormen, or both.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

Alot of these things depend on the chips in play.

All of those examples really look like a raise. I can see going 20 over a bet but when you go into 30-40 dollar range it's hard to just say it was a mistake.

It really is a judgement call for the dealers. You can make up tons of scenarios where something is a call in one spot but a raise in every other spot.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

Have a talk with management away from the table. Explain the problems and nicely ask them to formulate a policy and disseminate that information to all employees. If you do this in a nice friendly manor, when you are not involved in a hand, then hopefully they will take some kind of positive action. Too often a heated discussion that takes place during a hand will lead to bad feelings all around.

Re: NL: tossing in less than a full raise...binding or not? (Chicago R
 

As others said. With no verbal declaration - Case 1 is a call, 2 and 3 are min-raises.