KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

Since this was only my fourth hand on that table I had no reads on MP1 and CO.


Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.10/$0.20
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (13SB, 4 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.5BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, Hero folds


At that point I was very concerned about a flopped set or a x/7, that somehow decided to see one more card. Q/7 is also possible at nano limits like that.
But im still not sure if it was the right laydown.
I'm quite new to poker so I would be happy to hear your opinons.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

Don't fold the turn. Call the raise.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

IMO laying this down is not a good play. MP1 very well might have a hand like A7, but he could just as easily have something like Q10. The CO raised preflop. His flop raise would tell me that he hit his queen (possibly AQ, or KQ?) The pot has 12.5 BB in it, so you are getting 6-1 on a call here. Strong betting doesn't necessarily mean that someone has a 7. In fact, the action on the flop tells me you are up against a couple of Q's.

That being said, I have zero confidence in my reads right now. I've spent the summer dropping my whole $600 bankroll at 1/2. And have only just build my last $3 back to $20.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't fold the turn. Call the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think folding this turn is ok. You have expressed both pre-flop (3-bet) and on the flop(raise/cap) that you beat Q high. The fact the middle card paired is bad because if either had two pair with the Q, the 7 either filled them up or counterfieted them, however, they show aggression, so I doubt the latter. You are either raising the best hand or folding behind because you don't have the outs. UI you will be paying at least 3 bets to see show down to win 17 (~3:1), and could potentially get trapped for upto 8 bets to win 28 (~4.5:1). With the action before me, damn me when CO shows AK:spades: and MP1 shows Q5o, but I don't think putting another 3-8 BB in to this pot will result in a long term win against two unknowns.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

This looks like a fold to me.

MP1 isn't slowing down even though you capped the flop. CO sat through all those raises and then decided to pop the turn... surely your hand cannot be good. I would need reads in order to call this. Reads that MP1 is a maniac, and CO waits until the turn to pop top pair.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

Oops..I misread the action. I thought CO 3-bet the flop not MP1. With the real action, it is more likely that CO is sitting on a monster. I'd be real curious to know what MP1 has though.

Can I change my answer to ok to fold? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

I was originally going to say that CO has a 7 pretty much always, but then I saw that CO raised preflop and that it was MP1 going nuts on the flop. Weird action.

I think it's an okay fold. You're getting 6:1 on a calldown *if* there are no more raises, but I doubt you're good that often. You've told both opponents you have an overpair, and neither seems too concerned about it.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

[quoteDon't fold the turn. Call the raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think a turn fold is probably the right play.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

*grunch from the cheap seats*

I don't fold here considering the wide open play of my opponents at these levels. The seven doesn't bother me much.

I am probably up against AQ with the CO. If MP1 is betting two pair here or trips he is a lucky moron.

I call down.

Re: KK: right laydown on the turn?
 

Thanks for all the answers. I pretty much thought the same way as Vern and jrz, thats why I folded obviously.
But here is how the turn and river went down:

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.5BB, 3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, hero folds, MP1 3-bets, CO calls.


River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (18.5BB, 2 players)
MP1 bets, CO folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to MP1.

I know the king on the river shouldnt bother me.. (doh anyway)

But what made me really feel sick was the fold by CO. I mean two guys cap the flop, than he pops the turn just to fold to one single bet on the river.
The only hands i can imagine here are 8c6c or 6c4c.
Still kind of a gutsy move on the turn.
Then again, he managed to get me out so i propably shouldnt complain.
And if the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] shows up on the river and you add hole cams to that hand he probably would have made a genius play there.