Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

I'm specifically talking about the pro player.

The poker pro is running a business, just like any other business. The pro's business is playing poker, and turning a bottom line profit.

Let's take a live game 15/30 player making $40/hr. This person is paying about $12/hr in rake (3hands @ a full $4/hand), $3/hr in tokes ($1/hand won), and getting back about $1.00/hr in comped food/beverage.

That's about $14.00/hr in net costs on gross earnings of $55.00/hr. That's a profit margin of about 75%. For any business that would be considered an outstanding pre-tax margin. Heck, 20% is outstanding margin. For a mere 25% overhead, this person is receiving the benefits of advertising, trained dealers, a place where all players can safely come, and oh yeah, a place to actually work.

Seems like a pretty dang amazing deal to me. Online play is obviously even more amazing.

I just don't know of any other business where people literally complain and whine that their 75% pre-tax margin isn't higher. It's a business, and one with a pretty reasonable overhead structure.

This is inspired by people whining about toking dealers $1/hand, but it's obviously a broader concept. Anyways, stop whining, we've all got it pretty good.

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

Good point. My margins after costs including labor for myself and my partner are lucky to hit 15% in the construction industry. I only rate our labor at $16/hr. We've got a total of 36 years combined experience in the field. I need a new job.

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

Clarkmeister that's a good argument but there are some strong counterpoints as well.

It's not like the economy is insanely volatile and constantly changing, most businesses can expect a VERY steady income with almost no variance. Think about how often stuff breaks in say a laundromat, that's about as bad as they have it.

It's tough to tip on a medium-sized pot when stuck 60BB to a bunch of drunken lagtards who really wouldn't give a damn if they lost all their money.


The other argument is that, like you said, a poker player is running a business when he plays, and just like any business, they are always trying to minimize losses in every single way they can.

Why have 10% losses when you can have 5% losses? Every other player at the table is tipping, and a 17/9 is going to win way less pots than a 60/30, so what's the big loss?

All that said I think when people say "the rake is bad" the are deluding themselves, yes, paying rake is [censored] awful, I look at that stat in PT and want to throw up -- but the rake isn't high, it's what it's always been. If the rake was $2 max from the start people would still complain about the rake and most, maybe not all, but most who are not tipping as often as others would still not tip as often.

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

First, most pros do NOT make over 1bb/hr from their game.

Second, try adding adding in the additional costs to obtain non-group health insurance for you or your family and let me know how that effects the bottom line.

Third, you forgot to include 941 tax (yours AND company share), into your equation. No big deal now, but if social security does still exist when you're an old man, you will have nothing. Oh, and unemployment tax and any benefits of 401k matching, etc.

Fourth, take out other benefits like sick days and 3 weeks vacation time.
These are all employee costs most companies have to figure into their bottom line.

Hey, there are a lot of benefits to playing poker for a living and I have nothing against tipping and also look at it as overhead. But in fairness, you have to look at the whole picture.

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

Clark, this post isn't serious, right?

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

I'm starting to wonder if all the people that whine about tipping are just delusional losing poker players that think tips are what is killing their profit.

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm starting to wonder if all the people that whine about tipping are just delusional losing poker players that think tips are what is killing their profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe thats because tipping does kill your profit.

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe thats because tipping does kill your profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the love of God people...its simple: I-N-T-E-R-N-E-T!

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe thats because tipping does kill your profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the love of God people...its simple: I-N-T-E-R-N-E-T!

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes I dont want to play internet poker. I would lose a very large % of my profit if I started tipping generously. The rake is bad enough..

Re: Do poker players look at rake and tipping in an unrealistic way?
 

Lestat, the analogy is poker compared to running your own business, not being employed.