HULA Feedback Thread
 

Now that some of us have reached the end of our HULA schedule I thought it might be worth setting up a thread for any feedback (good or bad) so that Perseus, or whoever Commishes it, has feedback for the next event.

As a start, and in no particular order, my thoughts are as follows:

<ul type="square">[*] The $100 'retainer' to ensure matches get played was a great idea. Non-played matches didn't seem to be an issue this time round, which is great.
[*]Pokergrader's site would be worth using to keep track of the matches. Ensuring captains get access from the start of the next HULA will hopefully ensure they all use it.
[*]With regard to the HULA site, one problem I had was that I couldn't enter results if the opposing captain hadn't set the fixtures. I think both captains need to be able to add fixtures in case the home captain fails to do so.
[*]It would be a good idea for players to post their agreed fixture times (either via the site or in the results thread) so that everyone is aware that times have been set up. The final week this time around seemed to have a lot of late matches. It'd be helpful if we (captains and commish) could see if a date has been agreed so that we don't chase up unnecessarily.
[*]There was enough interest in this to consider expansion, both in terms of number of teams and increasing the players per team. Personally I like the idea of having 7 fixtures (so 8 players) per team as it might keep the fixtures alive longer and reduce the amount of 'dead rubbers'.
[*]I think I'd prefer more than 30BB starting stacks as its quite easy for a couple of early outdraws to leave you pretty much decimated. This is the first HULA I've played where I didn't have a match go to the 2nd blind level.
[*]I'd love to play a No-Limit version of this if there was interest.
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Just a few thoughts. Feel free to add your own. I don't intend anything I say to be a criticism of anyone or anything in particular. I just think we can use feedback like this to continue to improve HULA in future (and it has improved beyond recognition from the first 2 events).

Finally a big thank you to Perseus for organizing this, to Surf for holding the funds and to everyone involved for playing their matches. I had fun, despite the results!

Sheriff

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

My only comment is that I have had some difficulty scheduling matches with opponents on different time zones (particularly when they also work a regular day job). I don't know if there is a real solution, but it would be nice if somehow opponents could be matched according to time zone (or at least if that factor could be considered by the captains making the schedules).

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

I don't know about the time zones thing, if it can be avoided. I'm sure some captains will want to make what they think is a favorable match up, and not consider the time zones.

I agree that the retainer fee seemed to work really well. I had originally just tossed that out there as a wild idea, and it turned out even better than I expected. Let's be sure to keep it.

I liked how the system of alternates worked.

One thing we're going to try in MiniHULA is to change the way the final match is played so that no one sits out. No one who's made it that far should "have" to sit out, nor should a captain "get" to sit out his worst player. The finals should represent the strength of the whole team. In the event that the teams split the matches 3-3, then each team will pick a champion to play the deciding match. We haven't done this yet, but we'll report back w/ the results of our experiment.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

I don't like how the system of alternates works. Unlike some people who may be content to sit out for a week, I signed up to play and that's what I want to do.

I posted this thread a few days ago, but it got few views and no replies. I tried to propose a fix to what I've seen go wrong with the MiniHULA league. It's a bit long, but I would appreciate some feedback.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to play a No-Limit version of this if there was interest.

[/ QUOTE ]
im in. if you cross post in msnl and hsnl you'll get a ton of interest. a 300bb starting stack would be ideal (though matches could take 2 hours).

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

I read your post. I'm really not sure how your system of alternates works, and thus, if I like it at all.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

One more suggestion:

MiniHULA winner should challenge the HULA winner to a match.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ][*]I think I'd prefer more than 30BB starting stacks as its quite easy for a couple of early outdraws to leave you pretty much decimated. This is the first HULA I've played where I didn't have a match go to the 2nd blind level.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, 30BB is ideal for two evenly matched opponents. My games were all very long, much longer than I planned or had time for (with the exception of one match where I totally sucked by forgetting how to read hands HU and therefore lost very fast).

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
One more suggestion:

MiniHULA winner should challenge the HULA winner to a match.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this one.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
I read your post. I'm really not sure how your system of alternates works, and thus, if I like it at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, starters always get to play if they want to. Alternates are only there to fill in when a starter can't play for some reason. Because it's out of the alternate's hands as to how many, if any, games he's called upon to play, he only pays a prorated amount of the entry fee. Likewise, if his teams wins, he wins a prorated amount.

It was the best I could come up with that was fair and solved the problems (as I saw them) of making a player sit out at least once per season and scrambling to find a replacement player if someone is unavailable or drops out.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

the single greatest HULA PITA is actually finding a table.

I'd repeat that, but I think someone else will do that for me.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
the single greatest HULA PITA is actually finding a table.

I'd repeat that, but I think someone else will do that for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you were willing to play 20/40 play tables at Prima, there was no problem at all finding a table.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

my games lasted about 30 min, total.....i think 30 bb is nothing.
dave

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I read your post. I'm really not sure how your system of alternates works, and thus, if I like it at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, starters always get to play if they want to. Alternates are only there to fill in when a starter can't play for some reason. Because it's out of the alternate's hands as to how many, if any, games he's called upon to play, he only pays a prorated amount of the entry fee. Likewise, if his teams wins, he wins a prorated amount.

It was the best I could come up with that was fair and solved the problems (as I saw them) of making a player sit out at least once per season and scrambling to find a replacement player if someone is unavailable or drops out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This, in essence, was the former version of HULA - where each time had a roster, with an alternate who would be called upon in the event that a player couldn't make his match. However, many alternates didn't get to play a single match, and overall sense of team was somewhat diminished as a result. The "sit 1 week" idea worked pretty well, IMO. If anyone sat more than 1 week then obv something went wrong.

Surf

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the single greatest HULA PITA is actually finding a table.

I'd repeat that, but I think someone else will do that for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you were willing to play 20/40 play tables at Prima, there was no problem at all finding a table.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]



we were completely unable to land a prima play-money tables. All the HU ones were taken.

We eventually migrated to Stars on the nano-limits...which was a PITA because that was a wait too. But at least we got on.


I think our failed prima attempts came in the afternoon though.
Perhaps Prima play-money tables are better in the American evening hours (after most of the Europeans have stopped playing).


I really enjoy the HULA's.
I think our mini-hula idea of a retainer to ensure all the matches gets played helps a LOT.

I look forward to another HULA (hopefully soon) as well as a NL version (HUNLA??)

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

I think I'd prefer a more tournament style - 5 weeks certainly drags on. So maybe roundrobin individual matches, have to set aside predetermined times so it can run faster than 1 match a week...

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

Has anyone ever directly approached Stars to see if they might reserve a couple of nanotables for us specifically? I do not think they would dismiss this request out of hand.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
This, in essence, was the former version of HULA - where each time had a roster, with an alternate who would be called upon in the event that a player couldn't make his match. However, many alternates didn't get to play a single match, and overall sense of team was somewhat diminished as a result. The "sit 1 week" idea worked pretty well, IMO. If anyone sat more than 1 week then obv something went wrong.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct and it didn't work well in practice. In the earliest HULA's the alternates had long since forgotten they were part of the team by the time they were required. Consequently, there were as many problems getting alternates to play games as there were getting original team members.

The new system works well as everyone is an equal part of the team with the same financial committment. Consequently, its almost 'accepted' up front that everyone will sit out a week. The only change I'd propose would be changing the rule preventing captains from sitting out without exceptional reason. I'd have liked the option to sit myself out for the final week due to crap form!

Sheriff

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone ever directly approached Stars to see if they might reserve a couple of nanotables for us specifically? I do not think they would dismiss this request out of hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

We actually had HULA specific tables on a small site for the first two events. The site also held all the money and didn't charge a rake for doing this. I doubt that the bigger sites would be as flexible but I did suggest asking this at the start of this HULA. I believe Perseus wanted to see how things went this time round before re-evaluating.

I used 3 sites during HULA, experience as follows:

Stars - Micro-limit tables. Nightmare getting a seat. Raisins tried stalling someone repeatedly for an hour to get him to stand up and he completely missed the 'subtlety' and stayed put!

Prima - Play money tables. Immediately available both times I tried. Lightning fast. Best site by far. 2 opponents didn't have Prima accounts though, otherwise I'd have played here every time.

UB - Micro limit tables. Better availability than Stars but still some waiting. Pain in the arse to get a complete hand history though - Ultimate History seemed unable to cope with the speed of hands and I got only partial histories for my 2 games.

Sheriff

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
UB - Micro limit tables. Better availability than Stars but still some waiting. Pain in the arse to get a complete hand history though - Ultimate History seemed unable to cope with the speed of hands and I got only partial histories for my 2 games.

Sheriff

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Use PokerAce for hand histories at UB and you will have no problems. But you will have a problem with the rake which is brutal there, unlike Prima and Stars which both have no rake.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

Can you get HH's from Prima play money? I didn't think you could.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can you get HH's from Prima play money? I didn't think you could.

[/ QUOTE ]

PT can't, however you can record the session on video. I'll be posting all of my sessions soon.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
This, in essence, was the former version of HULA - where each time had a roster, with an alternate who would be called upon in the event that a player couldn't make his match. However, many alternates didn't get to play a single match, and overall sense of team was somewhat diminished as a result. The "sit 1 week" idea worked pretty well, IMO. If anyone sat more than 1 week then obv something went wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know that was the original HULA setup - I searched and thought I had found all of the previous rule posts. Nonetheless, I think my idea is a little different because it includes the deposit that even alternates would have to fork out up front. I think that's a pretty good incentive to keep the team together enough to finish a season without too many AWOLs. I'd really like to find a solution which doesn't require me to sit out of 20% of my matches.

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can you get HH's from Prima play money? I didn't think you could.

[/ QUOTE ]

PT can't, however you can record the session on video. I'll be posting all of my sessions soon.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You can and PT can import them without problems - you just need to set the playcheck to pick up playmoney hands, rather than cash games.

Sheriff

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can you get HH's from Prima play money? I didn't think you could.

[/ QUOTE ]

PT can't, however you can record the session on video. I'll be posting all of my sessions soon.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You can and PT can import them without problems - you just need to set the playcheck to pick up playmoney hands, rather than cash games.

Sheriff

[/ QUOTE ]

ooh thats hot, excelent tip!

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: HULA Feedback Thread
 

Yeah, thanks a bundle. I hadn't wanted to play at Prima since I wanted the PT history, but now that I have the option, I'm stoked. Rumor has it it was hard to get tables at Prima, too, but I'm certainly no worse off.