My Side of the Story
 

To the 2+2 Forum,

I’d like a chance to respond to some of the comments that have been posted about me on this forum. First, I do want to thank everyone who has supported me throughout this tournament, I appreciate both the positive feedback and the constructive criticism.

I was really surprised and hurt to see the posting by Jean Gluck which accused me of bad etiquette, called me arrogant, and wondered why no one “punched me in the face.” This is especially so because I really respect Jean, and I have looked up to her as a woman and poker player for a while now.

But beyond having my feelings hurt, it is extremely important to me that I have an opportunity to let everyone know that the accusations are absolutely false.

I want to respond to Jean’s account of what happened at the WPT event—and separate fact from fiction:

1. I most certainly, absolutely, positively DID NOT slow roll Liz. I despise slow-rollers…have been on the receiving end of that before and it was not fun. I do not know how that very false rumor got started, but it is just that: an absolutely false rumor. I believe that there were many people there to see that as soon as Liz put her chips in the center I flipped my cards over and stated “I have quads.” In fact, I acted so quickly in flipping over and stating my hand that at first I was nervous she had not actually called (she didn’t say “I call”…she just put one stack of chips in the center…which I interpreted as a call…but after flipping over my cards I got nervous that she might not have actually called). Liz mucked her hand, but maintained that she had pocket jacks (which would have given her a full house on the turn). After she said that, I said, “Liz, wow, I got really lucky then with that river, sorry.” I genuinely look up to Liz and when I was interviewed later in the tournament I listed her as my role model…in fact if anyone has ever seen my pokerpages.com profile they know that the players I respect most are “the women”—I would not dare disrespect anyone, let alone Liz, by slow-rolling.

2. When I asked Freddy to show his cards to me after I called his re-raise and showed my pocket twos, I thought that I was entirely within my rights as a player as I had “paid to see,” and Freddy was sitting directly to my right and was playing fairly aggressively and I thought that being able to see what he re-raised me with would be valuable information. I never forced him to show, I never asked the dealer to show the cards, I simply turned to him and said: “Would you mind showing me? After all I did pay to see [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]” Freddy smiled, flipped over A9, and said he was impressed with my call. After some other players at the table told me it was bad etiquette to ask to see, I apologized profusely and let it be known to all that it was the unknowing mistake of an inexperienced player. Later in the day, in private, I apologized again to Freddy, and he said that he was not at all offended (as he also stated at the table in my defense). My intentions were certainly not to be rude or disrespectful at all. In fact, I really do pride myself for what I have always thought was classy and respectful (albeit sometimes goofy) table demeanor.

3. When I shook the hand of the player whose J-high flush I beat with my Q-high flush, it was after I flipped up my cards and directly after the dealer said “she has you covered.” It was not until after the chip count that the player realized he had a few chips left and was not eliminated. I would hope that, if anything, this shows that by shaking his hand I was trying to show good sportsmanship as well as sympathize with a player who definitely was dealt a cold blow by the cards.


Finally, I think it is obvious that I, as any 23-year old with so little relative experience should be, was scared XXX-less by playing with Doyle (and Freddy, and Phil, and Liz, and Evelyn, and Williams, and the list goes on). In fact, when I was playing with Barry Greenstein on day three I made it aware to all those at the table that I was grossly intimidated. I respect, admire, and look up to the players on the circuit who have proven themselves. However, that does not mean that I will just lay down and concede defeat. Please do not forget that this is a competition with a lot of money at stake. If I appeared confident at the tables it was just my attempt to appear prepared to handle the immense pressure I was under (so as not to appear weak to the other players). It certainly was not an attempt to be cocky or arrogant. I do not think I am the best poker player, the best female poker player—or anything even close. I think my performance demonstrates that I have potential, and I hope to actualize that potential.

Everyone knows that I am both young and relatively inexperienced in this industry, and I still have a lot to learn. If I made errors and stepped on anyone’s toes at the tournament, I not only sincerely apologize, but encourage him/her to personally raise the issue, and preferably in a private forum such as email.

I like to think of myself as someone willing to learn from mistakes and I understand that, like anyone, I may have to take my lumps along the way. People are entitled to their opinions and there may always be those that don’t like me or don’t like my game. However there is a big difference between “hot or not” posts and accusations of poor conduct and sportsmanship that could injure my career, especially, when they are totally false. It’s incredibly easy to start a rumor but incredibly difficult to stop one. It is very important to me that anyone interested enough to follow my game or post in these forums know the truth.

I sincerely hope that my future conduct at the table and performance on the tournament circuit will demonstrate to all that I am able to represent what the term “professional” implies.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Vanessa Rousso

Re: My Side of the Story
 

good post. this will probably clear up all the flack you are getting.

i was almost positive that this was going to be a gimick post before i started reading it.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Very well written, GG too I'd be out 605 out of 605.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Havn't heard anything about this, I rarely stray into this forum, but if a person is forced to go this far to defend herself against an accusation of slowrolling then the accusers have really gone to far and are taking a small thing (that in this case never happened) way too seriously. Also, the OP should be more offended at the hot or not thread about her. I'd rather be a slow roller than be treated like a piece of meat for virgin internet nerds.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Vanessa, I tracked your amazing performance during this last tournament...you're the nuts, girl! Don't let the haters drag you down, your response was a class act, all the way!

Re: My Side of the Story
 

I have no clue as to who you are and am not familiar with what happened since I don't get the channel that airs WPT events..nor have I read any of the posts in the Hot or Not thread.

but after reading this post I must say that I am supremely embarassed for this entire forum [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

well done

Re: My Side of the Story
 

[ QUOTE ]
virgin internet nerds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, you leave me out of this, understand?


I too think the response post was well written, and I can see how some things get misinterpreted.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Excellent post.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

I dont know if this is really Vanessa Rousso but it does not matter either way. You should just play your game and not care what others think or say about you b/c that could cost you $ in the end.

Also a pattern i noticed in regards to comments about women poker players. Whenever i see a women poker player brought up it always gets back to 2 things : 1.Shes a bitch, 2.shes not hot. Who gives a [censored] one way or the other? I dont enjoy watching male poker players more when they happen to be good looking or enjoy them less when they happen to be ugly. Seems so childish.
Just worry about yourself and your own game and ignore detractors.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Thanks for post Vanessa, I think that clears up a lot of the accussations against you.

Btw, do you have any response to James Van Alstyne's remarks on the circuit about not shaking his hand after you were eliminated? After he received all the 'stories' about your slow roll play, he called your reaction 'poker justice'.

As well, I suggest you call the cardplayer circuit show out because they basically bad mouthed you at the 'final table preview show' and tried to ruin your reputation to potentially thousands of poker players worldwide. Just an idea to set the record straight there as well.

Thanks again for your post, my first thoughts of you as a classy and intelligent women poker player has been reinforced by this post and wish you the best poker success in the future.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

One day it will be an old poker adage:

"If they're making [censored] up about you at 2+2 and rgp-

you must be doing something right."

They only hate on the good ones. Men the Master was repeatedly uncouth to many players this WPT, and I haven't heard a single mention of it...his game must be slipping...

Re: My Side of the Story
 

i'm sure i'm not the only one who is curious as to whether or not she voted in the other thread

Re: My Side of the Story
 

[ QUOTE ]
One day it will be an old poker adage:

"If they're making [censored] up about you at 2+2 and rgp-

you must be doing something right."

They only hate on the good ones. Men the Master was repeatedly uncouth to many players this WPT, and I haven't heard a single mention of it...his game must be slipping...

[/ QUOTE ]

misread post.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

hmmmm?

what did I misread?

Re: My Side of the Story
 

i replied to your post, but it didnt make any sense because i misread it

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Snap!

As the former Vice President of Lathrop Intermediate School (Class of '79), I would like to applaud OP for helping restore the honor and prestige of former middle school VPs everywhere [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Hi Vanessa,
Good post.

also, was there an Italian kid at your table on day 3? (BG's table)

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Congrats on your finish and nice to hear your side of the story.

Good luck in the future, and hope to see posts complementing your skills.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Nice post, Vanessa.

We sat next to each other for awhile in the Tunica $1K event in January. Fellow Dukie here.

Don't know how I missed you at the Bellagio. Good job navigating that field, and congrats on your winnings.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

excellent post

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Vanessa and others,
I am not a tourney player so perhaps there exists a different culture there. However I was a little interested in this part: [ QUOTE ]
2. When I asked Freddy to show his cards to me after I called his re-raise and showed my pocket twos, I thought that I was entirely within my rights as a player as I had “paid to see,” and Freddy was sitting directly to my right and was playing fairly aggressively and I thought that being able to see what he re-raised me with would be valuable information. I never forced him to show, I never asked the dealer to show the cards, I simply turned to him and said: “Would you mind showing me? After all I did pay to see ” Freddy smiled, flipped over A9, and said he was impressed with my call. After some other players at the table told me it was bad etiquette to ask to see, I apologized profusely and let it be known to all that it was the unknowing mistake of an inexperienced player. Later in the day, in private, I apologized again to Freddy, and he said that he was not at all offended (as he also stated at the table in my defense). My intentions were certainly not to be rude or disrespectful at all. In fact, I really do pride myself for what I have always thought was classy and respectful (albeit sometimes goofy) table demeanor.



[/ QUOTE ] Since when is this poor etiquette? This is entirely within the rules and I think that any reasonable person who knows poker knows that is your right to do so. At the most whenever I have asked for this I have received a glare from inexperienced players only. Those players saying this is poor etiquette are completely wrong and IMO your apologies were not necessary. It is definately not unproper to ask especially if you were doing so politely. If him or any other players were to deny you that right by tossing the cards into the much that would be extremely poor etiquette.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Anyone else feel like a dick for voting that she wasn't "hot"?

Re: My Side of the Story
 

While your post is eloquent, it is of course your side of the story. I highly doubt you'd actually 100% fess up to slow rolling and other poor table etiquette if you were actually engaged in them.

I wasn't there of course so I have no idea what was actually said or done, so I can't cast judgements or defend you. However people rarely just make up a whole bunch of stuff like this.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

who are you and why would I care???
its not like you invented tater-tots or something.....

Re: My Side of the Story
 

[ QUOTE ]
While your post is eloquent, it is of course your side of the story. I highly doubt you'd actually 100% fess up to slow rolling and other poor table etiquette if you were actually engaged in them.

I wasn't there of course so I have no idea what was actually said or done, so I can't cast judgements or defend you. However people rarely just make up a whole bunch of stuff like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this amusing to finally go to the third page and uncover the only sensible response in this thread. You fellow 2+2'rs are that easily influenced? I laud Vanessa's courage to come onto the forums and state her side of the story. I extend my congratulations to your finish. But to my fellow 2+2'rs how do you guys easily buy into this? Is there not a vigilant eye around here?

"Great post!! Ignore those childish remarks!! Everyone's always hating on the successful people!"

You guys seem to forget it's not just a bunch of vengeful posters criticizing Vanessa out of pure $hits and giggles. Are you guys saying Jean Gluck and Liz are fabricating lies? Vanessa's post has implied this. What about the other reports, like the J high flush vs. Q high flush incident? Are people just making up stories out of pure jealousy? And why on Vanessa? Why did no one rag on Erica or Evelyn if the poker world is so mysogynistic? What's the "accuser's" motive? We're obviously not getting the real story, and I guess we never will. But it's not like everyday there are some character assasins waiting to pounce on the game's new star. We have rather credible sources that are making claims.

I'm not saying her post is BS, but like a poster said, it's not like she would admit to slow rolling or bad etiquette. No one likes to admit they're a bad person or consciously doing something wrong. Who's going to admit to that? Usually people will respond for their acts in the, "Oh it didn't happen," "Oh I didn't know," "Oh that's total BS..people are out to hate on me," defense. Only Vanessa knows herself, and if she's content with her actions then so be it.

I'm not here on some crusade to belittle Vanessa's accomplishments. She sounds like a very talented woman. Many posters have also said she's very nice as well. I was rooting for her to make the final 6 and maybe even win it. It would be great for poker. But what's not good for poker is bad behavior and tv personalities demanding the spotlight. I'm not saying that's what you are, in fact I wish these reports are false. But if they aren't, then I'm glad Jean and Liz have spoken up about it. We don't need anymore Hellmuth's and Matusow's. We will never stop these types of people from playing the game. However, we should at least give credit to the people who truly perform and handle success with class.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for post Vanessa, I think that clears up a lot of the accussations against you.

Btw, do you have any response to James Van Alstyne's remarks on the circuit about not shaking his hand after you were eliminated? After he received all the 'stories' about your slow roll play, he called your reaction 'poker justice'.

As well, I suggest you call the cardplayer circuit show out because they basically bad mouthed you at the 'final table preview show' and tried to ruin your reputation to potentially thousands of poker players worldwide. Just an idea to set the record straight there as well.



[/ QUOTE ]

According to Vanessa, WE are all wrong about her... Me, Liz Lieu, James Van Alstyne, The Circuit. It's funny to see how a law student would cover something like this up. Well done! I never insulted you looks or your intelligence, I merely exposed your bad poker play. Which it seems you still can't own up to. This will be my last post about this nonsense. Good Luck everyone!

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Nice post-- welcome to the forums

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Its clear that Vanessa didn't intend to do harm. Perhaps she is guilty of whatever she is being accussed of, but her tone and well thought out response shows me that her intentions weren't bad. As someone her same age and also relatively lacking experience when it comes to big time poker, I empathsize(sp?) with her. This should be a dead issue now imo.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Well personally *I* think its pure jealousy - I heard there were certain pros continually dogging Internet players in Costa Rica and showing no class whatsover. A real pro has respect for everyone on and off the table.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Im really on know ones side because I don't know what happend, but alot of the pros tend to put down the new players because they feel since there pro they can bad mouth newb internet youngsters [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Ugh. And now the Liz Lieu blog, I have no idea what to believe anymore. I'm just going to give up and just watch the circus from the sidelines.

This thing is outta hand.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

i voted hot.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Vanessa,

That was a well-written post and shows that you seem to have a very good grasp on how to handle yourself. I hope that your response will put an end to the rumors circulating about you.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

greatest gimmick account/post ever whoever did this

vanessa if this is really you then plez post a pic of yourself holding a sign that says "yes its really me 2+2"

Re: My Side of the Story
 

It sounds to me like Ms Gluck got her information from her good friend Ms Lieu. I think there was some miscommunication between Liz and Vanessa due to the latter's inexperience, which likely led the more-experienced player (Liz) to interpret the incident as a deliberate slow roll (whereas it was likely unintentional).

And the Deeb hand wasn't all that big a breech of etiquette either - if it is true that Freddy reraised. Normally, the calling player is supposed to wait until the raiser turns over their hand (after which they have the option to muck). Of course if the caller has the nuts, proper etiquette suggests he/she should turn over their hand immediately, allowing the raiser to muck if he/she choses. Vanessa turned over the winning hand before Freddy had a chance to, so I can see why some people might see her asking Freddy to see his hand, as a breech of etiquette. However, it sounds like she did this in a friendly manner, to Freddy directly, and he had no objections (therefore no one else should).

I think there is a HUGE double-standard at work here. Because Vanessa is, apparently, brash and talkative at the table and uses this as a psychological ploy to gain an edge, she's a "bi*ch". But apparently it's okay for dozens of established (male) pros to do the same kinds of things with relatively little effect on their reputation.

And I think calling the clock of Liz was brilliant, something that might be lauded if an established male pro did it. Unless she's constantly calling the clock on people, I don't think it's a serious breech of poker etiquette.

Gavin Smith, on the Circuit, said that Eric Lindgren trash talks and needles opponents at the table. I've never heard anyone criticise Eric for this. But apparently Vanessa isn't allowed to use similar tactics without getting trashed in the poker media.

In a year or so, Vanessa will have the live poker etiquette thing down (or she should). But will she still be saddled with a bad reputation because she isn't all "sweetness" at the table? Likely, yes. Women aren't allowed to be brash and aggressive at the poker table without drawing criticism. The two most successful female tournament players - Annie Duke and Kathy Liebert - draw criticism because of their table talk. What really underlies this is that they are being criticised for acting like most of the other (male) players.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

How come the hot chicks never get along?

Re: My Side of the Story
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think there is a HUGE double-standard at work here. Because Vanessa is, apparently, brash and talkative at the table and uses this as a psychological ploy to gain an edge, she's a "bi*ch". But apparently it's okay for dozens of established (male) pros to do the same kinds of things with relatively little effect on their reputation.

[/ QUOTE ]

ARGH NO IT ISNT!

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING CRAP LIKE THIS?

every player gets discussed on here. look at the amount of mud slung about online players ZJ, JJ, giga, look at the way people talk about sheiky, matusow, hellmuth, fischman, and lately nguyen. are they women? no.

people discuss everyones personality here with both positive and negative comments if they stand out at the table.

my god. just run a search for hellmuth if you dont believe me.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

[ QUOTE ]
The two most successful female tournament players - Annie Duke and Kathy Liebert - draw criticism because of their table talk

[/ QUOTE ]

and when your done with the hellmuth search run a search for duke and find out why people diss her. i very rarely pay out any player on this board because i dont know them, but others have many, many reasons for paying her out which have no regards to her 'acting like a man'.

its attitudes like yours that are truely destructive to women being accepted in poker because you feel that women cant defend themselves and get off on jumping up and defending them because they are too 'soft' to defend themselves. just let them play. if they screw up pay them out. if they act with class say that too (how much does ev or jennicide get dissed?)

Re: My Side of the Story
 

This is Vanessa Rousso, I don't have a webcam so I am sorry I cannot post a picture of me holding a sign...lol...I am not too familiar with posting in forums such as these, so I wouldn't know how to post a picture regardless. Anyhow, I just intended to make my side of the story known so that people could more objectively evaluate the facts.

Re: My Side of the Story
 

Hey thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Yes, there was an italian soccer player at my table on day three...