Neteller Fraud
 

So I wake up this morning having not played poker in four months, look into my bakn account and there is 1600 dollars pulled from my account through Neteller. No one else has access to my account or passwords, or even the e-mail address where I keep the passwords. It was an EFT, and when I look at the Neteller history this all happened a couple days ago and then 700 was sent to one poker site and 750 to another. So I called Neteller and had the account shut down and now they're working on it. So...

What's the possible outcome here? Should I expect to see any of that 1600 coming back? What precautions should I take so that this doens't happen again? I already changed the passwords to the e-mail account I use and to Neteller and got a new secure ID. Is my bank account still in danger? Where do I go from here?

Any help you guys got is appreciated.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

Bump. Anything, or does this just suck?

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

i dont know much to say about your situation, but ive been hearing so many neteller and poker site thefts that ive been making very sure that i keep only the balances i need to play my game in my poker accounts/neteller.

i suggest others start doing the same.

also, im calling neteller and having them disable any sort of EFT/Instacash from my checking to NT (i never fund that way and i dont want someone to get into my checking account this way either).

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]
also, im calling neteller and having them disable any sort of EFT/Instacash from my checking to NT (i never fund that way and i dont want someone to get into my checking account this way either).

[/ QUOTE ]
Get a second checking account.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

I advise everyone to do what I do. Have two chequing accounts. One linked to your NT account with <$100 in it, and another one that you actually use for your day to day. When you EFT from NT to bank, then do a transfer from your NT linked account to your regular account. There's no reason not to do this.

With regards to your individual situation, I would also contact each of the poker sites in question.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

Contact your bank. They should be able to protect you from fraudulent withdrawls. Let us know how it works out.

Also, read my posts often. My past mantra: 'All funds online at risk all the time.' I'm gonna expand that to include all linked bank accounts. 'Course all my linked accounts have a $1 balance when idle.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

Your bank will fight for you in a fraud case. Also call the police and report it or the bank won't do jack.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

So far nothing, but we'll see what happens. The advice given here is definitely something I will follow in the future. More to come, something by Monday...

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

I dunno.

With Neteller, you're screwed. But with your bank... I'm assuming it's a US bank here - the general rule is that if you didn't authorize the transaction, the bank takes the hit, not you. That's the general rule - I wish I could say for sure that applies to EFTs.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

This is somethign I've always been wary of. Especially after starting casino whoring. Either way, I have only one bank account, so I now am debating whether or not to look into a second account of some sort....sigh. I suppose I'd have to go to another bank right?

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

This is slightly helpful:

[ QUOTE ]
If unauthorized use occurs before you report it, the amount you can be held responsible for depends upon how quickly you report the loss to the card issuer.

* If you report the loss within two business days after you realize your card is missing, you won't be responsible for more than $50 for unauthorized use.

* If you fail to report the loss within two business days after you realize the card is missing, but do report its loss within 60 days after your statement is mailed to you, you could lose as much as $500 because of an unauthorized transfer.

* If you fail to report an unauthorized transfer within 60 days after your statement is mailed to you, you risk unlimited loss. That means you could lose all the money in your account and the unused portion of your maximum line of credit established for overdrafts.

If you failed to notify the institution within the time periods allowed because of an extenuating circumstance, such as lengthy travel or illness, the issuer must reasonably extend the notification period. In addition, if state law or your contract imposes lower liability limits, those lower limits apply instead of the limits in the federal EFT Act.

Once you report the loss or theft of your ATM or debit card, you're no longer responsible for additional unauthorized transfers occurring after that time. Because these unauthorized transfers may appear on your statements, however, you should carefully review each statement you receive after you've reported the loss or theft. If the statement shows transfers that you did not make or that you need more information about, contact the institution immediately, using the special procedures provided for reporting errors.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/elbank.htm

This is slightly better:

[ QUOTE ]
(a) Unauthorized electronic fund transfers; limit
A consumer shall be liable for any unauthorized electronic fund transfer involving the account of such consumer only if the card or other means of access utilized for such transfer was an accepted card or other meanas [1] of access and if the issuer of such card, code, or other means of access has provided a means whereby the user of such card, code, or other means of access can be identified as the person authorized to use it, such as by signature, photograph, or fingerprint or by electronic or mechanical confirmation. In no event, however, shall a consumer’s liability for an unauthorized transfer exceed the lesser of—
(1) $50; or
(2) the amount of money or value of property or services obtained in such unauthorized electronic fund transfer prior to the time the financial institution is notified of, or otherwise becomes aware of, circumstances which lead to the reasonable belief that an unauthorized electronic fund transfer involving the consumer’s account has been or may be effected. Notice under this paragraph is sufficient when such steps have been taken as may be reasonably required in the ordinary course of business to provide the financial institution with the pertinent information, whether or not any particular officer, employee, or agent of the financial institution does in fact receive such information.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, reimbursement need not be made to the consumer for losses the financial institution establishes would not have occurred but for the failure of the consumer to report within sixty days of transmittal of the statement (or in extenuating circumstances such as extended travel or hospitalization, within a reasonable time under the circumstances) any unauthorized electronic fund transfer or account error which appears on the periodic statement provided to the consumer under section 1693d of this title. In addition, reimbursement need not be made to the consumer for losses which the financial institution establishes would not have occurred but for the failure of the consumer to report any loss or theft of a card or other means of access within two business days after the consumer learns of the loss or theft (or in extenuating circumstances such as extended travel or hospitalization, within a longer period which is reasonable under the circumstances), but the consumer’s liability under this subsection in any such case may not exceed a total of $500, or the amount of unauthorized electronic fund transfers which occur following the close of two business days (or such longer period) after the consumer learns of the loss or theft but prior to notice to the financial institution under this subsection, whichever is less.
(b) Burden of proof
In any action which involves a consumer’s liability for an unauthorized electronic fund transfer, the burden of proof is upon the financial institution to show that the electronic fund transfer was authorized or, if the electronic fund transfer was unauthorized, then the burden of proof is upon the financial institution to establish that the conditions of liability set forth in subsection (a) of this section have been met, and, if the transfer was initiated after the effective date of section 1693c of this title, that the disclosures required to be made to the consumer under section 1693c (a)(1) and (2) of this title were in fact made in accordance with such section.


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...3---g000-.html

Basically, if you reported it within 2 days, your loss ought to be limited to $50. If it was more than 2 but less than 60, you could be liable for as much as $500.

Edit: That's 2 days from when you found out about it. If you found out about it this morning, and report it to the bank by tomorrow, you should be ok.

Again, that's in regards to your bank account. Neteller can tell you to take a flying leap if they want to, and probably will.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

do you have your passwords saved in your browser? what security software do you have on your comp? People report stuff like this all the time and they typically have bad security.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

I agree with having seperate checking accounts. With all banks giving free accounts, it benefits in many way to have a poker only account. For the op I would do a through virus scan with McAfee and MAS.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is somethign I've always been wary of. Especially after starting casino whoring. Either way, I have only one bank account, so I now am debating whether or not to look into a second account of some sort....sigh. I suppose I'd have to go to another bank right?

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm in canada, so I can't vouch, but you should be able to go to your bank and open a second chequing account without and difficulty. I have two chequing accounts, one of which is listed under the 'savings account' side, so I can even get at it from my same debit card... it's just a small offline bankroll, and it's linked to NT. My actual account isn't, but I can transfer funds from one to the other online instantly.


...anyway, talk to your bank. Having two accounts under the same name shouldn't be a problem at all, and is a good procaution.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

0% chance of getting your money back. YOU GOT CAUGHT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH CHEAT! CHEAT! CHEAT!

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

Maybe I missed something< but did you report this to the 2 poker rooms in question and have them investigate whose account the money went into??

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

Okay so a tentative update, I talked to a guy from Neteller yesterday and he said he needed permission to contact the two poker rooms in question. I had them shut down my Neteller account and I forgot to write down the names of the two poker sites, so I couldn't access it. Anyways, the guy said he would contact them and that cases like this are usually easy to resolve.

As for those asking about the security on my computer, the only way to get to my Neteller stuff (passwords, etc.) is on a Yahoo mail account I use for poker. The passwords never autofill or anything like that. For Neteller it's the same. So whoever did this would have had to go to Yahoo first and then to Neteller, and figure out both passwords (which are different).

As for contacting my bank, I did contact them but they were pretty unhelpful. I didn't really push them that hard because I figured there was nothing I could do. Are they popssibly liable here to cover this? If that's what people think I will call them back and ask about that.

Thanks for all your help. I'll update again when I get more information.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]
I advise everyone to do what I do. Have two chequing accounts. One linked to your NT account with <$100 in it, and another one that you actually use for your day to day. When you EFT from NT to bank, then do a transfer from your NT linked account to your regular account. There's no reason not to do this.

With regards to your individual situation, I would also contact each of the poker sites in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do the same, 2 checking accounts 1 main one and another with <$50 in it

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont know much to say about your situation, but ive been hearing so many neteller and poker site thefts that ive been making very sure that i keep only the balances i need to play my game in my poker accounts/neteller.

i suggest others start doing the same.

also, im calling neteller and having them disable any sort of EFT/Instacash from my checking to NT (i never fund that way and i dont want someone to get into my checking account this way either).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm doing the same.

Given that Neteller apparantly makes little effort to protect from or insure against fraud, there's no good reason to keep money there. Especially considering the pay no interest.

OP: The general rule (for a real bank - not Neteller) is that if you didn't authorize the transaction, you're not liable for it.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

Email is not secure. For most sites you only need the PIN and Account ID to withdraw from Neteller into a Poker Account. This information is sent from Neteller to the client via plain text email. This can be read be anyone along the path as it passes from network to network before it reaches your inbox.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]


Also, read my posts often. My past mantra: 'All funds online at risk all the time.' I'm gonna expand that to include all linked bank accounts. 'Course all my linked accounts have a $1 balance when idle.

[/ QUOTE ]

KOOK-fool.

stop screaming about the falling sky please.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP: The general rule (for a real bank - not Neteller) is that if you didn't authorize the transaction, you're not liable for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright I will call the bank tomorrow and see what I can do.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

I have read many similar posts so I am trying to make my accounts more secure. Would transfering money from checking account to savings account and only leaving a small balance on the checking account serve the same purpose as opening another checking account? Thanks.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

Alright, so Neteller seems to be doing a good job. The guy tried to move funds to two different online casinos. At one place, apparently, they have frozen 700 dollars meaning he didn't try to move it off that site. The other one, according to Neteller, has yet to respond, so no idea where things are there. So my guess is that at least 700 is coming back, plus 125 bucks in the fees Neteller used to process my transaction. So I'm at least halfway there, and it remains to be seen what happens next.

Keep your fingers crossed, but so far I have to say Neteller is doing a bang up job (not that they've really had to do much, but hey, they've been good so far). They also did a good job calling me back when they said they would and told me to call back whenever I felt like it. So if you have any reservations about the service at Neteller, I would say go with them.

Anyway, that's all for now. More later.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, so Neteller seems to be doing a good job.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's good to hear.

Good luck with the other half.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

I had the same thing happen to me on Monday. Somebody completely cleaned out my bank account by making withdrawals through Neteller. The money went to 24hr Poker, which I've never played at nor signed up at.

Neteller is still "investigating" - I haven't heard from them in 2 days.

My bank put a stop payment on the transfers, and has blocked Neteller from debiting my account. Supposedly the bank is going to reverse the charges and credit my account in 2-3 more business days. So I'm hoping to get my money back (over $2200) minus the fees with the bank.

This is very scary to me. I've been using Neteller for over 3 years, and never had a problem. Nobody has access to my passwords, and I've checked my computers for viruses and found nothing. Could someone have hacked into the Neteller system?

Let me know how your situation turns out, and I'll do the same. As I said I'm hopeful I'll get most of my money back, but I doubt I'll be usuing Neteller any more.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

I don't know how effective Neteller is at "investigating," but they certainly were nice enough on the phone and didn't try to beat around the bush as to where they were. I would call them every couple days to keep tabs. It seems like sometimes they have information and (for some reason) don't pass it along, even though it's good news.

As for avoiding this problem, I think the best you can do is link Neteller to an account with not much cash in it. I think that seems to be a pretty easy way to go here that solves the problems. No doubt it completely caught me out of the blue though.

The Verdict
 

Alright, so after a little bit of time, the result is....it's all coming back! Turns out half was frozen and the other half is part of what Neteller said is a "much larger problem" that other customers have been having. Bottom line, they said to tell my bank that an account had been compromised, and Neteller would refund it all.

A couple notes for those of you wondering how the situation was handled: Neteller did a great job tracking stuff done and discovering where the funds were and explaining the situation and then how to get it back into my bank account. Moreover, they weren't even pushy about reopening my Neteller account and said it was "completely understandable" if I was a little shy towards the idea. IMO, a good move by them. Only downside, I had to call them for updates, not they called me. But, not a big deal because you wait on the phone for like 2 minutes for them to get someone.

VERDICT: Whoo, good job Neteller!

Re: The Verdict
 

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, so after a little bit of time, the result is....it's all coming back! Turns out half was frozen and the other half is part of what Neteller said is a "much larger problem" that other customers have been having. Bottom line, they said to tell my bank that an account had been compromised, and Neteller would refund it all.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's really good news, and I'm happy to hear it.

I'm glad Neteller's stepping up to the plate.

I'm glad things worked out for you, and thanks for posting the results.

Re: Neteller Fraud
 

[ QUOTE ]
I advise everyone to do what I do. Have two chequing accounts. One linked to your NT account with <$100 in it, and another one that you actually use for your day to day. When you EFT from NT to bank, then do a transfer from your NT linked account to your regular account. There's no reason not to do this.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I have done.

Re: The Verdict
 

Did they explain how it was compromised or how you could have prevented it?