poker tracker ruining online poker
 

Poker tracker is ruining online poker, people are no longer playing poker they are dong their math homework. Lets not even mention how badly it slows down the game. The main point is not the time is the fact that players that use this have an unfair advantage against players that do not use the tracker. Shouldnt this be banned ? Please post your thoughts

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

no. you are dumb.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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no. you are dumb.

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Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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no. you are dumb.

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Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

I happen to disagree with your your general premise... and in addition I think it speeds the game up as we can quickly look at some numbers rather than to try and remember how villian has played hands in a the past.

But I don't see why you should be concerned with PT at all - if you think it's a problem then why not just play at some of the many many many sites which are not PT compatable?

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

The best sites on the net are the ones that do not allow PT. I think PT is great as it makes everybody play the big sites and leaves the best games alone.

Playing 5/10 at 45% flops is wonderful on the smaller networks that do not have PT. There are places where 15/30 games are still 45%.

I have PT and think it's great but a lot of people are becoming dependent on it and used it poorly for reading players.

Remember - it only tells you what players have done in the past and not what they are doing now.

It's not ruining the game at all.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

If you want to play online poker, you need to accept it for what it is.

1. You have little idea who (or what) you are playing against
2. You could be playing against more than one player
3. Your opponent could be using all kinds of analysis / tracking / spy software
4. You can make no use of physical tells

etc etc etc

Nobody is forcing you to do it. If you dont like it, you two choices:

1. Dont play
2. Adjust accordingly

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

Poker tracker is the equivalent of picking up on tells and patterns in a live game, I don't think it "ruins" the game at all. If you are playing someone who is reacting to your stats you can always play off that, just like in a live situation.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

Play somewhere that Pokertracker and HUD's don't work - like 100% rakeback World Poker Exchange.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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no. you are dumb.

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i <3 PT

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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Poker tracker is ruining online poker, people are no longer playing poker they are dong their math homework. Lets not even mention how badly it slows down the game. The main point is not the time is the fact that players that use this have an unfair advantage against players that do not use the tracker. Shouldnt this be banned ? Please post your thoughts

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Looks like you make two points. 1. PT is ruinning online poker. 2. Pokertracker gives some players an unfair advantage and should be banned.

1. I don't see any evidence that online poker has been ruined. Is it currently being ruined? I don't see any evidence that of that either. Even if your premise is that players are now doing their math instead of "playing poker", whatever that means, I don't see how that equates into ruin. I suppose your point is the games are less juicy, but that's a far cry from ruin. Online poker is in fact incredibly healthy, and absent a govenrment assault on online poker I don't see anything that would change that.

2. Does PT give players an unfair advantage. Assuming for the sake of argument that PT does, in fact, give players an advantage over those who don't use it, I don't see this as an unfair advantage. The same effect can be done with free programs or without anything more complicated than excell.

Online poker has many differences from live poker and this is simply one of them. I know many players want online poker to simulate live poker as exactly as possible, but this seems like a silly attititude to me.

As long as the sites are willing to send us hand histories, the smart player will take advantage of that. There have always been players who will use all the tools within the rules to advance their game, and those who will not. The difference between such playes does not add up to "unfair".

PT should not be banned.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

Just curious, what are some of the more popular sites that do not allow PT?

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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people are no longer playing poker they are dong their math homework.

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I'm not sure what that means.

As far as PT being an advantage to the players that use it, I agree it is an advantage. I don't think it's unfair though. PT is readily available to everyone at a reasonable price, or free if you investigate just a bit. If someone chooses to not use PT, it's their decision, albeit a poor one, IMO.

Using the logic in the OP, one could make the argument that reading instructional books is an unfair advantage. Some people just don't want to take the time to read, so anyone who does is decreasing their learning curve, thereby gaining an advantage.

PT and Poker Office are programs that will help online poker, because they allow the casual player to be more competetive. The more skilled players will continue to win, but at least the fish will be more competetive.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

PT has been around for ages and it hasn't ruined anything.

If you're going to play online, you have to use online tools. It's not like PT is available to the select few.

PT is invaluable in analyzing your own game, more so than other people's.

How many B&M players have statistics for the last 500,000 hands they played? (if they ever played that many) I think playing in a B&M is a disadvantage, just because you can't review your progress or lack thereof.

PT teaches you about the swingy nature of poker, about running well & running badly.

I find that I can't discuss poker with my B&M friends anymore. They boast about their incredible win rate for the past year (30,000 hands?) and they think it's going to stay that way. I can look at my stats and know I've been getting more than my share of good cards and it can't possibly stay that way.

I don't use PT while playing, because it's a distraction. Players who rely on PT too much during the game can't read their opponents as well.

I find that players change for the better or worse and in many cases, more than one person uses the same account. So you're better off observing the here and now, not past actions.

Relying heavily on PT doesn't necessarily make you play well.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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Just curious, what are some of the more popular sites that do not allow PT?

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pokerroom doesnt support it in tournies fwiw.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

Did you really just come to 2+2 to complain about Poker Tracker? Let the onslaught begin!

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

Yes for the sites, for the rounder it's like saying the pack day middle age guy with a 40 pound water gut is incredibly healthy......... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

Just because someone has pokertracker doesnt mean that they use it properly or to its full potential.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

You are obviously NOT an online pro, and if you are, i doubt you make any serious money. I would guess that 90% of online pros have and utilize PT. PT is nothing but a bunch of stats, you gain these stats by playing with these players just like gaining reads, then you use the stats just as you use reads.

I agree, you are dumb

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

troll

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

i have another one - online poker and PT is the best thing that ever happened to live games!

discuss...

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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Just curious, what are some of the more popular sites that do not allow PT?

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NO site has banned PT nor PAHUD. And if they want those programs to Not work, all they need to do is stop providing hand histories. (duh)

BOTH programs are necessary to play effectively online, as you do not have the ability to see the face of you opponents. The scant info you get from player profiles in PT is HARDLY an "unfair advantage". it only give you the same information you can glean from a live game.


Does PT give an unfair advantage? Hardly. PT does nothing to give skills to a player they do not have.

Having PT does not make you a good player. And without PT you are just spewing chips into the darkness.


AB

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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BOTH programs are necessary to play effectively online

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this is false.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

I'll take your side for a second. If there were a way to ban poker tracker and all other related programs, I wouldn't be against it. Only because I feel that I have, of my own play and analysis, learn to crush small stakes SNGs. I understood the value of agressive bubble play, and the value of folding a big hand on the bubble, and many nuances of the game. To quote someone on this forum somewhere "I had stumbled into the method that 2+2ers use on my own".
Now take someone else who has not discovered this and may never have, and give him poker tracker. Now not only can he play as well as I could but better. He could learn to dissect every single +EV play in a very short amount of time with no real thought or analysis of his own.
I can easily see why you would be flamed for a post like this, but to be honest I'm with you.

Having said that I am a PT user, how could I not be given my little story. And it does no doubt teach many valuable things about poker, and it has made me a better player.

The days of spending hours with a pen, paper, and a deck of cards are gone. And they were gone long before I was doing it.
We can all hope that there will be a neverending wave of clueless players who will never want to use PT ever.

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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I think playing in a B&M is a disadvantage, just because you can't review your progress or lack thereof.




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This is wrong.

b

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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BOTH programs are necessary to play effectively online

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It can help, but certainly not necessary.

b

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

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Just curious, what are some of the more popular sites that do not allow PT?

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NO site has banned PT nor PAHUD. And if they want those programs to Not work, all they need to do is stop providing hand histories. (duh)

BOTH programs are necessary to play effectively online, as you do not have the ability to see the face of you opponents. The scant info you get from player profiles in PT is HARDLY an "unfair advantage". it only give you the same information you can glean from a live game.


Does PT give an unfair advantage? Hardly. PT does nothing to give skills to a player they do not have.

Having PT does not make you a good player. And without PT you are just spewing chips into the darkness.


AB

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You argue that both programs are necessary to play online. Then in the same post you argue that PT doesn't give an unfair advantage.

Datamining should not be allowed
 

I'm w/ you on this... poker tracker is like the spell check of poker... i teach high school math, and i see kids mispell their names on occasion...

i don't have a problem with PT... after a few years of being stubborn, i hit a bad downswing and purchased the program for an instant self-evaluation of my last 30k hands... it is a very useful program, and helped me fill several major major holes in my game... of course i use it for evaluating other players as well... paying the 50 bux and not doing so would be ridiculous... however is still try to jot down some good qualitative data on players, when i see something that the 4 numbers Gametime+ puts up could miss...

the true part that i feel is ruining poker is the data-mining capability... i play on PR and it is not capable of datamining, and i feel comfortable that an opponent will not have more info on me than i do on them... you should not be able to gain information on a player w/o game experience against them... doing so is pretty lame IMHO... w/ that being said, I do not fault those who datamine... as players, we look to exploit every edge conceivable, and if the site allows it, it's open season IMO... however, that is one thing that keeps me away from PP the majority of my playing time, despite the more lucrative small stakes games... it's up to the site to not allow datamining, as i believe they should not

Re: poker tracker ruining online poker
 

I agree with the OP. I use PT because it's legal, but I would rather hand histories did not exist.

Re: Datamining should not be allowed
 

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and i feel comfortable that an opponent will not have more info on me than i do on them... you should not be able to gain information on a player w/o game experience against them... doing so is pretty lame IMHO...

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Whatta load...

So when a bud of mine comes in from out of town to play in my room and asks me about some of the guys that are sitting on his table before he actually goes to the table, that's wrong? Yeah, right. That's like saying that you both can't compare/share notes about other specific players over a meal in the casinos restaurant. Which is very useful when moving up limits in a cardroom when there isn't much player crossover between the limits but one of you has played the higher limit regularly.

b