$50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

Villain is 42/8/4.5 over 59 hands and frankly appears to be a big fish. I try not to make a habit of taking AA to the felt, but unfortunately this time I was OOP and the board was so draw heavy that I thought a bet on the flop and the turn were mandatory. I think the flop and turn play's are standard, but what is my line on the river? Check/call any reasonably small river bet? Or try for a smaller blocking bet? I mean all of the draws missed, so if villain was drawing then he will just check it down. Would anyone advocate c/f on the river if villain bets big?
Obviously my river bet was way too large, but I just quite frankly didn't know what to do. Comments on all streets, but most notably the river are appreciated [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

p.s. the results of this hand are laughable, I will post them later for the amusement of the forum.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($55.15)
MP2 ($46)
MP3 ($8.35)
CO ($14.25)
Button ($47.20)
SB ($68.05)
Hero ($54.10)
UTG ($41.10)
UTG+1 ($56.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($6.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $5</font>, Button calls $5.

Turn: ($16.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, Button calls $15.

River: ($46.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $25</font>, Button calls $24.20 (All-In).

Final Pot: $95.95

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

Raise a bit more preflop, otherwise nh.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

$3? $3.5?

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

Why would you say the river bet was too big? I think it´s fine, and with those stats for villain, he could have easily have something like AK, KJ, TT/99. Obviously it seems you lost to KQ?

EDIT: Didn´t notice you mentioned results were sick, so I guess he had 68s or 63s then...

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

I'll put it this way, the turn helped him a lot [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

guess the sickest one is pocket 4's.

wp, no problem with this hand at all.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

I was going to guess he had Q7 but I suppose he has Q4, maybe K4 too of course.

I've seen so many people showdown Q5ish hands (after initially raising pre-flop). I cannot understand the reason to play them. They are such a bad starting hand. That is at 0.01/0.02 tho.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

[ QUOTE ]
guess the sickest one is pocket 4's.

[/ QUOTE ]
bingo [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

2/3 on the turn is enough, then half on the river, which save's ya $12 over what you put in. And of course fold to a raise on either of those.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

Ok JackAll, so you think a bet of approximately $11 on the turn and a bet of nearer to $20 on the river would have been better? I bet the river for $25 since villain only had $24.20 left infront of him, and I thought I might aswell just put him in. But I definately agree that I could have bet less on the turn.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

Yeah, as played the river bet was fine.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

JackAll,

I agree with a 3/4 pot turn, folding to a re-raise. But given villian stack size any appropriate river bet and i think all the money goes in. If hero bets $20 into the hypothetical $40 pot, I dont see how you can fold to a $7 raise into a $87 pot.

OOP,

As for check/calling, it depends on the reason you would do it. It doesn't work if you are doing it because you are afraid your behind given stack size and opponent. By the river villian only has a 1/2 pot size bet, and given his AF he will likely bet with a wide enough range that you need to call. Only if you had a read that villian would bet significatly less than a 1/2 PSB then could you consider c/c (Like a $10-15 bet).

I actually do like the c/c in this spot though. Unless you have a different read, his AF of 4.5 means he bets/raises alot more than he calls. If he checks behind he is more likely to have a hand that he wouldn't of called your bet anyway. So c/c to induce a bluff seems best, and given his stack I am almost always going to call regrdless of size.

If you are both deeper it would come down to the read I had on villians capability of bluff-raising the river. If villians not likely to bluff-raise (or maybe value raising in his mind with something like KQ) then a 1/2 PSB bet folding to a raise seems good. Otherwise I think c/c a reasonable bet is good (reasonable = 1/2 - 3/4 PSB)

**Disclaimer: Im a NL noob, so this advice may not be correct. Just my $0.02**

Dopey

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

[ QUOTE ]
JackAll,

I agree with a 3/4 pot turn, folding to a re-raise. But given villian stack size any appropriate river bet and i think all the money goes in. If hero bets $20 into the hypothetical $40 pot, I dont see how you can fold to a $7 raise into a $87 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fundamental point is that villian knows you are not folding, and would only raise there for value, so one pair is beat almost every time without reads that villian is mentally retarded.

For the numbers side of it:

2/3 (say $10) on the turn would make the pot 36.75 and players put in 17.5 each. Then half on the turn would make it so players put in 36 each total. A raise from villian costs $12 more for a $72 pot meaning that we have to win here atleast 14% of the time and we don't.

But all that is moot due to the first point above.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

I think you didn't bet the flop hard enough. with Q/K and possible straights out there you need to bet hard here. Also, you need to raise more pre flop.

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

[ QUOTE ]

The fundamental point is that villian knows you are not folding, and would only raise there for value, so one pair is beat almost every time without reads that villian is mentally retarded.


[/ QUOTE ]

I understand and agree with this logic, and your action would be obvious versus any good or even decent player.

Given the OOP's read and the referenced stats, I think even the example you give is closer ($12 to call to win $72) but I would still make that call the majority of the time. So I stand by the point that once the river comes the hero can't get away from the hand even had he bet as you had suggested.

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: $50NL AA Hand - I feel sick
 

[ QUOTE ]
I stand by the point that once the river comes the hero can't get away from the hand even had he bet as you had suggested.

[/ QUOTE ]

Knowing when to fold is an extremely important part of the game. Chasing a pot when you're behind is giving away money.