With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get good?
 

If the Knicks suddenly got smart - or changed management to really smart people - how long do you think it would take for them to field a competitive team, i.e., a team that would make the playoffs and have at least the prospect of contending in the following couple of years?

Keep in mind that, not only don't they have a first round pick this year, there is a good chance they will not have a high one next year either (as Chicago has the right to swap picks).

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get good?
 

I'll have the team at a high level in three years. Next year is key as long as they get actual value for the three expiring contracts.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get good?
 

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I'll have the team at a high level in three years. Next year is key as long as they get actual value for the three expiring contracts.

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Channing Frye is their only legit "piece" to a team, and they have no draft pick this year. Curry, Marbury, Francis, Robinson, Jalen Rose---deep playoff teams do not feature this players, I'm sorry. Expiring contracts are pretty overrated too IMO. I don't see the Knicks being a 50 win team for a long time.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get good?
 

They have a LOT of contracts to dump. 5 years.

Joe D is one of the best in the biz, and it took him 3 years to dump the Pistons and turn them into contenders. And they were in nowhere near the salary cap hell the Knicks are in.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get good?
 

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I'll have the team at a high level in three years. Next year is key as long as they get actual value for the three expiring contracts.

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Channing Frye is their only legit "piece" to a team, and they have no draft pick this year. Curry, Marbury, Francis, Robinson, Jalen Rose---deep playoff teams do not feature this players, I'm sorry. Expiring contracts are pretty overrated too IMO. I don't see the Knicks being a 50 win team for a long time.

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They have two first roun draft picks this year. Also, I think there is a market for Steve Francis or Marbury, Minnesota GM said today he'd be interested in Steph.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

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Yeah, I liked the Francis trade because it was something for nothing, but to trade either it's going to be for another similar over priced player (Zach Randolph, Theo Ratliffesque)

Maybe Stevie for AI? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

Anyone know of a pretty comprehensive list about all the contracts the Knicks have?

For all I know, they're still paying Larry Johnson.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

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See, this just isn't true. What would really help the Knicks (if they got smart management) is that there are A TON of stupid GMs out there. I mean, if you and I were GMs, then the aforementioned would be untradeable. But we aren't GMs. Morons are. As such, they are tradeable.

It'd be like poker. The new knicks management would just have to take advantage of the other GMs moronitude. They could be the 5/6 seed in 2008.

Josh

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

I think they have the talent to be a 40 win team next year. Will they? Probably not. They won't win 50 for at least 4 years. They won't be a title contendor for at least 5-7.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

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Yeah, I liked the Francis trade because it was something for nothing, but to trade either it's going to be for another similar over priced player (Zach Randolph, Theo Ratliffesque)

Maybe Stevie for AI? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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There is nothing the Knicks could do to get AI. He is one of the top 10-15 players in the league still in his prime and he absolutely brings it every night.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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I think they have the talent to be a 40 win team next year. Will they? Probably not. They won't win 50 for at least 4 years. They won't be a title contendor for at least 5-7.

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give me your projected starting lineup and tell me 6 teams in the East they will be better than which would be about what they would need to be a 40 win team.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Yeah, I liked the Francis trade because it was something for nothing

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that trade was all about the magic getting a young/cheap player while the knicks tie up more of their cap for years to come. Basically it was like, here anyone wanna take steve francis and his contract. At this point the knicks really only have one bargining chip and thats channing frye

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get good?
 

I think the problem is that New York isn't a place like Orlando where they can take forever to come up with a good product and the fans won't care. When the Knicks suck they just look for quick fixes and things that will satisfy the New York media and fans. However, sh!t really hit the fan this year and everythiing culminated in the mess they have right now.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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I think the problem is that New York isn't a place like Orlando where they can take forever to come up with a good product and the fans won't care. When the Knicks suck they just look for quick fixes and things that will satisfy the New York media and fans. However, sh!t really hit the fan this year and everythiing culminated in the mess they have right now.

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I've always hated it when commentators assume that Knicks fans want quick fixes. I would much rather see them commit to a complete overhaul and rebuild from scratch. In fact, I think they would be more entertaining that way also.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Yeah, I liked the Francis trade because it was something for nothing

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that trade was all about the magic getting a young/cheap player while the knicks tie up more of their cap for years to come. Basically it was like, here anyone wanna take steve francis and his contract. At this point the knicks really only have one bargining chip and thats channing frye

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Mehhh...Orlando traded Francis to get him off the books, they received nothing for him. Ariza is an unrestricted FA who had shown no improvement since he was in Summer League as a rookie. He played decent the last few games of the year in the NBAs garbage part of the season.

Not that Larry Brown didn't [censored] him up a bit.

Sadly, two young knicks who performed well this year Q Woods and Jackie Butler are also FA's and will have no problem finding playing time and $$$ on another team.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

Addition by subtraction. Letting Jameer Nelson run the show. Anyway---Qyntel Woods is a complete headcase loser (should be back in Portland), and Jackie Butler needs to stay out of Burger King.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

For a special bonus question, tell me whether you think there's any chance the current management will do the right thing, and if not, how long before Dolan finds people who can and will?

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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I think they have the talent to be a 40 win team next year. Will they? Probably not. They won't win 50 for at least 4 years. They won't be a title contendor for at least 5-7.

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give me your projected starting lineup and tell me 6 teams in the East they will be better than which would be about what they would need to be a 40 win team.

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Who are you and why should I give you anything? The bottom 6 teams in the East are not a huge hurdle to overcome.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

If the Knicks go with the same team next year you have

PG Francis
SG Marbury
SF Rose
PF Frye
C Curry

1.Crawford
2.James
3.Richardson

Right?

Rose is the most likely to get traded because I believe he is in the last year of his contract (off of memory so I could be wrong) And if I'm not mistaken he is the only big name contract that expires after next season.

It's highly unlikely he brings any value by himself but I could see him being part of either a multiplayer or multiteam deal.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

Left out Robinson, Who's actually pretty important because he's our only true point guard. Starting him allows Steph to play the 2, which is much better for him. The Knicks have four very talented guards to rotate, two strong starting bigs, and our most consistent player (Crawford) coming off the bench. With the right gameplan/motivation this could be a winning team.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

I just read this starting lineup, and even though I knew it already, it just hit me. The three top "name" players in the league that I had personally associated with losing, because no team that featured these players had ever been good plus teams that traded them away always got better, Francis, Marbury, and Rose, are all on the Knicks. And actually, most of their other players also fit the description of "addition by subtraction" for the teams that got rid of them. Look at the Bulls and Clippers nowadays. Both looking very healthy.
It's almost like they were trying to build a team that had a payroll as high as possible while also building a loser at the same time. I could not possibly have done a better job. Isiah is a genius.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

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See, this just isn't true. What would really help the Knicks (if they got smart management) is that there are A TON of stupid GMs out there. I mean, if you and I were GMs, then the aforementioned would be untradeable. But we aren't GMs. Morons are. As such, they are tradeable.

It'd be like poker. The new knicks management would just have to take advantage of the other GMs moronitude. They could be the 5/6 seed in 2008.

Josh

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Actually, sorry but it is true. A friend of mine's uncle is President of an NBA team (which will remain unnamed for obvious reasons), and in conversation about the Knicks has said that there is absolutely not a single team in the NBA right now who would take on Marbury's or Francis' contract even if you paid them too.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, this just isn't true. What would really help the Knicks (if they got smart management) is that there are A TON of stupid GMs out there. I mean, if you and I were GMs, then the aforementioned would be untradeable. But we aren't GMs. Morons are. As such, they are tradeable.

It'd be like poker. The new knicks management would just have to take advantage of the other GMs moronitude. They could be the 5/6 seed in 2008.

Josh

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Actually, sorry but it is true. A friend of mine's uncle is President of an NBA team (which will remain unnamed for obvious reasons), and in conversation about the Knicks has said that there is absolutely not a single team in the NBA right now who would take on Marbury's or Francis' contract even if you paid them too.

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I feel strongly that Mitch Kupchack (Lakers GM...his name is escaping me and I'm WAY to lazy to look it up) could be talked into taking one of them without much effort.

Josh

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, this just isn't true. What would really help the Knicks (if they got smart management) is that there are A TON of stupid GMs out there. I mean, if you and I were GMs, then the aforementioned would be untradeable. But we aren't GMs. Morons are. As such, they are tradeable.

It'd be like poker. The new knicks management would just have to take advantage of the other GMs moronitude. They could be the 5/6 seed in 2008.

Josh

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Actually, sorry but it is true. A friend of mine's uncle is President of an NBA team (which will remain unnamed for obvious reasons), and in conversation about the Knicks has said that there is absolutely not a single team in the NBA right now who would take on Marbury's or Francis' contract even if you paid them too.

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As if the president of one team could possibly know exactly what 30 other teams would do. Nice name drop though.
-James

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Left out Robinson, Who's actually pretty important because he's our only true point guard. Starting him allows Steph to play the 2, which is much better for him. The Knicks have four very talented guards to rotate, two strong starting bigs, and our most consistent player (Crawford) coming off the bench. With the right gameplan/motivation this could be a winning team.

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Calling Robinson a PG is a massive stretch. He averages 3.8 A/40 and clearly is much more of a SG than a PG. Also, wasn't the gameplan/motivation thing supposed to happen this year? The composition of this team is beyond repair by any coach out there.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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If the Knicks go with the same team next year you have

PG Francis
SG Marbury
SF Rose
PF Frye
C Curry


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I'm sorry, but that's below average at every position minus Curry at center, and he has been gaining weight at an exponential rate.

Also, teams like the Celtics, Magic, Hawks, and Raptors have MUCH better cores than the Knicks and are younger. The Knicks will be better than the 76ers next year--that's it.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I liked the Francis trade because it was something for nothing, but to trade either it's going to be for another similar over priced player (Zach Randolph, Theo Ratliffesque)

Maybe Stevie for AI? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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There is nothing the Knicks could do to get AI. He is one of the top 10-15 players in the league still in his prime and he absolutely brings it every night.

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Don't underestimate the dumbness of Billy King. He decided to just throw 60 million at Sam Dalembert last off season.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

He's 24, and averaged 8 and 8 in 27 minutes per game, to go along with 2.42 blocks. His game is very similar to Dikembe Mutumbo. Dalembert is one of their two pieces for a future along with AI2.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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As if the president of one team could possibly know exactly what 30 other teams would do. Nice name drop though.
-James

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Francis and Marbury are both 29. Both their contracts expires end of 2008/09 season. Franchise is ~$16M and Marbury's more expensive at ~$20M per season. They have both proven to be headcases to some extent, and the knock on them is they are PGs who don't make their teammates better, right?

What are possible trade scenarios for these guys?

-Al

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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As if the president of one team could possibly know exactly what 30 other teams would do. Nice name drop though.
-James

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Francis and Marbury are both 29. Both their contracts expires end of 2008/09 season. Franchise is ~$16M and Marbury's more expensive at ~$20M per season. They have both proven to be headcases to some extent, and the knock on them is they are PGs who don't make their teammates better, right?

What are possible trade scenarios for these guys?

-Al

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I'm not saying one way or the other whether I think they will be traded - I'm simply saying it's ridiculous to assume that 1 person, no matter what position they may hold, could possibly know exactly what 30 other competitors would do in ANY given scenario.
-James

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

James,

I think it's asanine to think that no one would trade for francis or marbury. However, to think that the knicks will get anything of value for either of these players is very wishful thinking.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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If the Knicks suddenly got smart - or changed management to really smart people - how long do you think it would take for them to field a competitive team, i.e., a team that would make the playoffs and have at least the prospect of contending in the following couple of years?

Keep in mind that, not only don't they have a first round pick this year, there is a good chance they will not have a high one next year either (as Chicago has the right to swap picks).

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wynton

either 6 years or until the majority of the team's starters experience family tragedies that start a fire inside their hearts and make them want to compete and win.

whichever comes first,
fuji

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

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See, this just isn't true. What would really help the Knicks (if they got smart management) is that there are A TON of stupid GMs out there. I mean, if you and I were GMs, then the aforementioned would be untradeable. But we aren't GMs. Morons are. As such, they are tradeable.

It'd be like poker. The new knicks management would just have to take advantage of the other GMs moronitude. They could be the 5/6 seed in 2008.

Josh

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Actually, sorry but it is true. A friend of mine's uncle is President of an NBA team (which will remain unnamed for obvious reasons), and in conversation about the Knicks has said that there is absolutely not a single team in the NBA right now who would take on Marbury's or Francis' contract even if you paid them too.

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As if the president of one team could possibly know exactly what 30 other teams would do. Nice name drop though.
-James

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do you seriously think these guys don't all talk on a regular basis? do you seriously think that isiah and the knicks aren't the laughingstock of the other nba teams right now?

if you actually believe either of those, you're very mistaken.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Francis and Marbury are both 29. Both their contracts expires end of 2008/09 season. Franchise is ~$16M and Marbury's more expensive at ~$20M per season.

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Earlier, I asked if anyone knew of a complete list of the Knicks' contractual obligations. I'll try searching it, but thought I'd repeat the question in case anyone mentioned it.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

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Yeah, I liked the Francis trade because it was something for nothing, but to trade either it's going to be for another similar over priced player (Zach Randolph, Theo Ratliffesque)

Maybe Stevie for AI? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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you actually liked the francis trade? you liked the fact that the knicks unloaded expiring contracts for another huge salary hit? I think Isiah might have a job for you.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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For a special bonus question, tell me whether you think there's any chance the current management will do the right thing, and if not, how long before Dolan finds people who can and will?

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the dolans still run the craphole that is cablevision, do u really think that they will run the knicks any better?

in all honesty, this is a team that has heaps of problems and has historically over the past 8 years given big contracts to guys who aren't worth it(ie grandma ma and allen houston). They also have the problem with not having any decent pick for the next two years of which will probably be high picks that the bulls will have. The team is an utter mess and I don't see it getting any better. No team that is in contention would want the headaches that are jamal crawford, steve francis, and stephon marbury. While I voted for 5 years, it really could be 7+ years for everything to finally get sorted out, especially with them losing the chance at getting any of the top players in this year's draft and having a shot at Noah and Big Baby next year. This is a team with zero chemistry, so to say that they have a chance at 40 wins is silly IMO. How are they really going to get help this off season, they have little cap room and will be losing players and they have to stay with this lineup for the most part, so how is a team that just won 23 games this season going to be able to pick up another 17, I just don't see it. Face it, the knicks are screwed for a while and its not gonna change with how things currently are

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Earlier, I asked if anyone knew of a complete list of the Knicks' contractual obligations. I'll try searching it, but thought I'd repeat the question in case anyone mentioned it.

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Ask twice and ye shall receive.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

Edit:

I just noticed the Curry deal isn't on there. I believe he signed for 6 years and 56 million.

Re: With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get go
 

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Also, wasn't the gameplan/motivation thing supposed to happen this year? The composition of this team is beyond repair by any coach out there.

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Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes it doesn't click in year one, especially when you have rookies in your core and you make several key trades midseason. Everyone is crying doom because a young team with a new coach and new players had a bad (terrible) season. I say wait and see.

What I was referring to is the talent on the team, which is pretty good. I admit that they probably won't put it all together, but if they did, they would be a near .500 team.