What makes a great cash game player
 

Hi all

What qualities do the top cash game players need that differ to tournament action?
Would you know how to spot the best cash players in your casino?
I'm interested in learning more about what makes these players tick and would welcome any comments.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

They crush the cash games.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

Good/great post flop play. The better they are at flop play, the better the cash game player they are.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

most of the time its pretty relative on just all around good poker play. the rising blinds is what is a problem for a lot of cash game players.

i would say cash game players have an overall more solid approach to the game and make the standard plays look easy.

they all can think to the 3rd level and beyond.. post flop play is a very extracting type of play.. but not so much a coin flop style either. they are more of an overall type of player where a tournament player will take more chances.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

Patience is my short answer. In a tournament, while you need it, there's a time when patience is over and you just have to move. In a cash game, you don't--which is certainly not to say that you shouldn't "make moves", just that the value of these moves isn't so much defined by your stack-size vs blinds as by table texture.

Aside from that, there's one easy way (definitely not infallible) to spot candidates for good cash game players: big stacks. I've seen very good players, though, with short stacks, and very bad ones with big ones. But most of the time, the big stacks are better players.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

Simon,

Balls.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

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Aside from that, there's one easy way (definitely not infallible) to spot candidates for good cash game players: big stacks. I've seen very good players, though, with short stacks, and very bad ones with big ones. But most of the time, the big stacks are better players.

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This has not been my experience at all. Generally a player with a huge stack is usually a LAG on a rush. I wouldn't expect a good player to have a tiny stack either (its not optimal to play with less than 12BB), but the truly ginormous stacks are rarely the experts.

I think part of what makes poker so profitable is that its not easy to spot the good players. At the lowest limits its pretty straightforward - just look for the tighest players at the table, but as you go higher its gets tougher and tougher. I played for hours once against this dude I thought was s drunken lag... after giving him a whole bunch of my money I realized that he was actually a very good player (although he *was* drunk). The table has gotten short and most of the other players were reasonably tight. He had simply adjusted appropriately but did it in such a way that we never knew what hit us.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

1. Not tilting is much more important.
2. You need to be able to play postflop. after the first few rounds of a tourney you rarely have more than 40xbb or so

-g

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

The best I've ever seen were/are always cool and calm. They know suckouts and bad beats are going to happen. They have the ability/good sense to accept them and get on to the next hand.

I never known one to worry about money. It's the old "just a way of keeping score" thing. That's the way they seem to think. That's why they can adjust to any stakes they play.

And they always seem to be so damned friendly! I've always liked them and don't remember anyone ever bad mouthing about them - except maybe complaining about losing to them.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

I've seen that, too, but, just the other night, two of the good players (not great, but good) got into some kind of buy-in frenzy and both had over $3,000 in front of them in a 2/5 game.

I also think your 12 BB in a cash game is way too low. I think it's suboptimal to play with less than 100 BB--in NL, anyway. I'll have to admit that I don't even pay attention to the limit games, so I have no clue what really happens there, although I do think you can definitely get by pretty optimally with a much shorter stack.

Anyhow, it's definitely just a rule of thumb, and I honestly don't see much point in playing 2/5, for example, with a stack of $3,000. I honestly don't LIKE having more than $1,500 in front of me, although it's probably actually a weakness, unless I have almost everyone well-covered.

And, I agree, loose morons on a rush can get way up there, but they usually lose it all back the same night. Honestly, though, I think I've seen at least an equal number of good players on a rush with big stacks--and they generally actually go home with it.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

Cash game players possess superior adaptation to handle high variance, especially if you look at non-online games. Many mediocre players do not focus enough on breaking down their own play in a cash game - busting out of a tourney makes them think much harder about the crucial hand/s. In cash game, the mediocre player will just rebuy (a large amount relative to the same level tournament) and continue on his tilt.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

So then...
A cool approach with zero tilt, excellent post flop strategies, a big bankroll and big balls!
Thanks for your responses
Simon22

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

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I also think your 12 BB in a cash game is way too low.

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FWIW, I meant 12 big bets in a *limit* game with a 4 bet cap - with that setup no hand can cost more than 12 BB (unless there's unlimitied raising heads-up, I suppose)

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

Discipline.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

the best cash game players I know have the best game selection skills, they look for games they can beat and don't let their ego force them into bigger games
"If they're helpless and can't defend themselves, you're in the right game" Mike Caro

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

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I also think your 12 BB in a cash game is way too low.

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FWIW, I meant 12 big bets in a *limit* game with a 4 bet cap - with that setup no hand can cost more than 12 BB (unless there's unlimitied raising heads-up, I suppose)

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FWIWx2 - there has been a lot of discussion / analysis on the merits of playing no-limit hold'em cash games with a short stack (e.g., < 20BBs).

The short-stack strategy advocates (at a very rough high level) buying in for 20BBs or less; having very tight pre-flop standards; raising 4-5xBB when you have a hand, and usually getting the rest of your stack in on the flop.

Being all in considerably simplifies post-flop play since you don't have to make any more decisions (and commit additional chips to those decisions). Ed Miller has a very nice description of the short-stack strategy in "Getting Started in Hold'em," though the idea has been around (in some version or another) for some time.

I would go as far as to say that having a short stack can be beneficial, especially if you're up against good post-flop players. In fact, I think it's easier to become a winning short-stack player than a winning deep stack player.

I agree, though, that short-stack play is not optimal. However playing a big stack incorrectly can be far less optimal. ;-)

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

The ability to deduce your opponents hand, and then the ability to follow through with those reads correctly.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

I agree, I'm a cash game player and when I talk with tournements players, I see that we see things differently

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

They almost extract the maximum value, even if it means entering some really high variance situations.

Tournament players often have to avoid high variance, small payoff situations, because when they hit negative variance the cost is astromical, but when they hit positive variance the pay off is modest. Doubling your stack doesn't double your EV in a tournament.

Re: What makes a great cash game player
 

a cash game player pounds the marginal edges, while a tournament player passes the 2% edge and waits for the better chance to get the money in, a cash game player can capitalize on these situations, a tourney player is all or nothing so a big edge is needed. The best cash player can't be afraid to push the marginal edge at times.