JTo river
 

I raise J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the CO, a 50/20 LAG 3-bets otb, the loose BB calls and I call.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, I check, Button bets, BB calls, I check/raise, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, I bet, Button calls, BB calls.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB bets

Re: JTo river
 

What would you do besides call here?

Re: JTo river
 

I call getting 11:1 or so. Folding is probably OK if he's passive. Raising isn't an option. If the LAG raises and BB calls then I call again and fold if it's 2 back to me.

Re: JTo river
 

Folding is horrible, raising is bad, calling is AWESOME!

Re: JTo river
 

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What would you do besides call here?

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There are eight combos of Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] that I beat here and the one that I am losing to is very unlikely (turn action).

Re: JTo river
 

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I call getting 11:1 or so. Folding is probably OK if he's passive. Raising isn't an option. If the LAG raises and BB calls then I call again and fold if it's 2 back to me.

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Folding is not an option.

Re: JTo river
 

Maybe my perspective is skewed here cuz i get shown KQ 96% of the time, but i really don't think you are ahead enough here to raise the river. I mean he is loose, hands like A9, AT that was going to pop the turn, KQ are all possible here... I would call. If you raise, insta-muck to a 3 bet

Re: JTo river
 

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Maybe my perspective is skewed here cuz i get shown KQ 96% of the time, but i really don't think you are ahead enough here to raise the river. I mean he is loose, hands like A9, AT that was going to pop the turn, KQ are all possible here... I would call. If you raise, insta-muck to a 3 bet

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KQ jacks the turn (pun intended).

Re: JTo river
 

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I call getting 11:1 or so. Folding is probably OK if he's passive. Raising isn't an option. If the LAG raises and BB calls then I call again and fold if it's 2 back to me.

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Folding is not an option.

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It should be if BB is passive.

Based on your read, I'm calling because you said nothing about his aggression level.

Re: JTo river
 

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Based on your read, I'm calling because you said nothing about his aggression level.

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I didn't have one.

Re: JTo river
 

Oops Jk, much closer than i originally thought. Sure, raise and fold to a 3 bet!

Also, spydog, wtf, folding here is basically always terrible, trust me.

Re: JTo river
 

I dont like raise/fold. I think button could well have an ace and will overcall with it. Will he call 2 cold with just 1 pair?

Re: JTo river
 

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What would you do besides call here?

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There are eight combos of Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] that I beat here and the one that I am losing to is very unlikely (turn action).

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Why do they have to be clubs? Why can't he have A4 or A9?

Re: JTo river
 

Oh, oh i still like calling myself...

I was saying that if he wants to raise/fold i don't think it's horrible, but i mean calling here seems best to me. If we call and it gets raised behind us, i would call as well, as sometimes AK/AQ will look for a value raise here.

Re: JTo river
 

It seems somewhat close, but I think calling is better as it´s 3-way and it lets button overcall one-pair hands, that he may fold for two cold.

Folding would be horrible, even if he seems passive. I wouldn´t fold against someone where my read is based only on stats either. Actually, I dont think I´d ever fold here.

Re: JTo river
 

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What would you do besides call here?

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There are eight combos of Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] that I beat here and the one that I am losing to is very unlikely (turn action).

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Why do they have to be clubs? Why can't he have A4 or A9?

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I was merely pointing out some combos of hands that people I talked to on AIM missed when analyzing this hand with me. Clearly saying that his hand-range is exactly Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is absurd.

Re: JTo river
 

Nate, you said this exact same thing about another hand in higher stakes and I think it applies here.
"Raising is superbad because you are often behind plus you shut out the overcaller."
Granted, the overcaller may be planning on folding his busted flush draw anyway, but I think this is a call. I'd be worried about A9.

Re: JTo river
 

I prefer betting the flop and checkraising the turn.

Jeff

Re: JTo river
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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What would you do besides call here?

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There are eight combos of Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] that I beat here and the one that I am losing to is very unlikely (turn action).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do they have to be clubs? Why can't he have A4 or A9?

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I was merely pointing out some combos of hands that people I talked to on AIM missed when analyzing this hand with me. Clearly saying that his hand-range is exactly Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is absurd.

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You were arguing the club aces made a raise look nice. I'm saying that weak (offsuit) aces make it look not nice. all in all, even if we ignore the overcaller argument (which is a good argument) i still think there are more combos that beat you than you beat. though i havn't done the math....

Re: JTo river
 

I think I prefer betting the flop as well to hopefully get it heads up with the LAG. The pot is big and a 50/20 LAG will raise with an extremely large range of hands here.

The way you played it, I call the river.

Re: JTo river
 

I definitely just call the river.

Did you consider a bet/3-bet line on the flop in hopes the button LAG would raise and drive out opponents?

Re: JTo river
 

I'll add my voice to the chorus of just calling the river and hoping for the overcall.

Nice flop checkraise.

Re: JTo river
 

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I prefer betting the flop and checkraising the turn.

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Why?

Re: JTo river
 

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I call getting 11:1 or so. Folding is probably OK if he's passive. Raising isn't an option. If the LAG raises and BB calls then I call again and fold if it's 2 back to me.

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Folding is not an option.

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Folding is not an option, I agree. I like a call.

Re: JTo river
 

Just call. The LAG may raise the worst hand for you.

Re: JTo river
 

I can see both sides. I like raising because I think LAG is likely to call two cold with an ace. I also like the flop play.

-DeathDonkey

Re: JTo river
 

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Folding is horrible, raising is bad, calling is AWESOME!

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Seems right to me...

...why the hell would we ever fold?

...Raising seems pretty stupid particularly considering we can likely get the value we want from the button overcalling behind us anyway.

Re: JTo river
 

Will someone explain why a flop checkraise is good? To me, this seems like a textbook example to bet into the LAG and face the BB who probably has a good chunk of outs against you with two bets. I bet this flop without a second thought every time.

Then you get to 3-bet too which is fun.

Re: JTo river
 

Doesn't it really come down to how agg. the BB is? I can see both sides of the arguement here, if the guy is passive, then I really like a call, if he is more on the agg. side then I think raising might be best. If he had just an ace he would prob bet it bc he might fear having it checked around (he also would play Aces up this way too of course) Interesting spot.

Re: JTo river
 

I really want to raise this river.

It really looks like "loose" BB caught an ace he was chasing. Most of A,x Hero beats. And since Button is a LAG, he'll often come along for two bets.


Adam

Re: JTo river
 

You're in the middle and can be raised on the flop if you bet, which you want. Building a big pot on this draw heavy board is less desirable to me than betting and hopefully clearing someone or giving them a worse price. Also, if you checkraise the flop, you allow an overpair to play perfectly against you with position and basically play perfect - extracting max from you and facing the other guy with two cold on the turn.

You have a pair of tens. While it is top pair and top pair is strong short, there are many cards you don't want to see and you're play on the flop is not going to encourage anyone to fold at pretty much any point and can put you in jeopardy later. I only mentioned the turn checkraise as the turn came down in this hand, not as a default - but if you bet and get raised, making it headsup going into the turn, I think an aggressive player will bet that turn card much of time, giving u a gimme checkraise. Ok...back to work.

Jeff