What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

Recently a local casino opened a holdem table, stakes played are currently $3/6 limit. The rush is on and every guy who ever watched poker on TV wants to get involved. Needless to say, extreme fish pond and lots of profit potential. The problem is that the majority of these guys are sooo loose that they never fold. Prime example, I raise from UTG with pocket aces. 7 callers!!!! Of course I continue to raise throughout the hand, and lose on the river to a guy with 8-10 who stayed in after pairing his 8 on the flop. 10 on the river, I lose.

Normally I'm TAG, maybe a little looser than a real TAG, probably see around 20-25% of flops and raise most of the time when I do enter a pot.

I understand that over time these loose players will lose, but I am looking for advice on how to maximize my winnings. Feel free to flame me or help me. I have thought about this for a little while and plan to implement this off-base strategy, unless you guys give me something better.

I'm thinking of going more passive and seeing more flops. No more raises pre-flop, because they don't really scare anyone away, and with a minimum of 4-5 players every hand, it's rare that the best hand going in hangs on to win. Limp in and see more flops. Then bang 'em if I hit, or even have a draw, because these guys will definitely call raises, and sometimes raise with 2nd pair, gutshots, and the like.

It goes against what I've learned, but I've never played against this type of totally fearless, chip spewing type of table, and I don't know what to do.

Thanks.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

Moving to a weak strategy like that is not optimal. I know it sucks (literally) to have your pre-flop monster get donked by 2 crappy pair, but you have to keep raising when you have the best of it. Realize that when you have a significant pre-flop edge (ie...AA) with 4-5 calling stations, they are making a incorrect play according to FTOP, and you profit.


Your stronger holdings pre-flop will win MORE than thair fair share of the time (not necesssarily > 50%, but if 5 handed, they will win more than 20% fair share so jam the pot). It's not "rare" that the best hand going in wins, its a proven long term statistic.

Don't let some low-limit suckouts tilt your play. Re-Read SSHE and keep grinding.

ALSO - I am in definite sympathy with you on suck outs, I just took $600 of 1/2NL suck outs at the winstar, but I realize I played well and this is a momentary oddity in a life long poker game.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

Thanks gig. I am actually towards the end of my first reading of SSHE, which might acount for some of my frustration. Trying to implement the teachings of the book and getting whacked is a pain.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

The only deviation from SSHE I'm regularly inclined to make w/r/t "Not Raising" is the unsuited big cards like AJ, KQ, and maybe AQ. You're giving up *a lot* if you fail to raise with the Top 10 hands (AA-TT, AKs, AQs, AJs, KQs, AK)

If you miss the flop with your Preflop Raise hand, don't waste a lot of money taking it to the river. That is, if your KQs sees a flop with an ace and you have just a backdoor flush draw, that's probably it for that hand.

But continue to bet for value with the mindset that most people will call anything preflop and usually for one more bet on the flop.

Where's your local casino? I want to go there.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

Winnemucca, Nevada. Trust me, you DON'T want to come here. Not even for the fishing at the casino.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

Ok, repeat this. Value bet, Value bet, Value bet.

If you think that your hand has a better chance of winning than your opponents, Value bet.

If you think your ahead, Value bet.

If you have a draw, with more callers than your odds of getting there. Value bet.

If you are going to call one bet on the river anyway, Value bet.

You might loosen up a little bit with small pocket pairs, and suited connectors, because they have the opportunity to make big hands that you will be able to confidently bet the whole way.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks gig. I am actually towards the end of my first reading of SSHE, which might acount for some of my frustration. Trying to implement the teachings of the book and getting whacked is a pain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take a break from play, finish the book in a day, re-read some parts that are fuzzy, go back to grinding. Re-read parts that are fuzzy, post hands. Play smaller stakes online, such as micro's .05/10 maybe even. This will be similiar to live 3/6 looooooose games. If you are not beating .05/.10 online then there are still leaks in your game.

Build a roll at .05/.10 and then move up. Build a roll at .10/.20 and then move up. It is not going to win you huge $/hr but it will DEFINITELY improve your game and that is what you are working towards.

Re-read, study, play, post, apply. Repeat.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

Why not? Are they flatulent?

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

As someone who cut their teeth in live 3/6 play, here are my comments (others have said some of these in this thread, so some of this is repeat)
- No fold Em to me degenerates in to elephant hunting ie...big pots vs grinding. Be prepared for huge stack swings, thats normal.
-Big pocket pairs go down in value when called by 6 players. You should play them aggresively, but don't go on tilt when you get drawn out. When you look down and see AA, don't get carried away, with 4 or more callers, you are an underdog
- On the other hand, the 3 catagories of hands you should look for are small/mid pockets pairs, suited connectors, and Ace rag suited. You want to limp in with each and hope to hit the flop. Chances are, you will be getting the odds to see the flop with these hands. Of the 3 catagories, my fav is small/mid pockets pairs, because they are the easiest to get away from if you miss the flop. With suited connectors and Ace rag suited, you'll have so much money in the pot that you will see more turns and rivers if you catch a piece of the flop than with the pocket pairs, so they tend to be larger drains on your stack. But when they hit, ooohhh baby...
- Pay extra special attention to position. You want to play these drawing hands for 1 bet; playing them UTG and then getting popped and isolated is no fun. To me, EP is still for top 15 hands plus smaller pocket pairs. This means if you are first to enter the pot from EP, you are most likely raising. I disagree with the notion you will be seeing tons more flops. Although you may be playing a wider range of hands, you will STILL be playing them IN POSITION.
- You mentioned something about not raising any more. W-R-O-N-G. If you feel you have the best hand, you largely MUST raise. This is the chief tool you have to punish people who play crap. Over the long haul, you will be ahead if you enter the pot with the best hand, so press your advantage. If Mr. Perch or Ms. Trout insist on calling your AK suited raise from EP with KJ off from MP or LP, you are cool with that; make your day.
- Read SSHE continuously, put the Maxim down...

Thanks
 

Thanks guys. I'll use your advice and continue to (try) to play correctly. Until this new game opened, I was actually pretty happy with my B&M play, which was only around 150 hours, but I was ahead overall. Nothing has been this loose, and it threw me for a loop. Online, I'm break-even almost to the dollar and have been for 6 months or so. Nothing special, but you 2+2er's are definitely a great resource from which to learn. Again, thanks.

Re: Thanks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Online, I'm break-even almost to the dollar and have been for 6 months or so

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup - if you take what I said about beating the micros - you will really improve your game. This is the way to get better, its not easy or fun, but I' in the same boat you are.

Happy grinding.

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]

-Big pocket pairs go down in value when called by 6 players. You should play them aggresively, but don't go on tilt when you get drawn out. When you look down and see AA, don't get carried away, with 4 or more callers, you are an underdog
- On the other hand, the 3 catagories of hands you should look for are small/mid pockets pairs, suited connectors, and Ace rag suited. You want to limp in with each and hope to hit the flop. Chances are, you will be getting the odds to see the flop with these hands. Of the 3 catagories, my fav is small/mid pockets pairs, because they are the easiest to get away from if you miss the flop. With suited connectors and Ace rag suited, you'll have so much money in the pot that you will see more turns and rivers if you catch a piece of the flop than with the pocket pairs, so they tend to be larger drains on your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would add K rag suited also, and i have my most success when i play 40% or so of hands...although i drop after flop if i haven't got something strong working...also, for post flop i learned to always take a minute to be sure i know what is the absolute nuts...one of my personal weaknesses has been to get ahead by the flop, raise like crazy on the flop & turn and blind myself to a draw chance at the turn/river...

Re: What strategy -vs- VERY loose table @ $3/6 limit?
 

Good responses. I would like to add that I see some relatively good players overplay their big hands in loose games like this. It's like they looked down and saw AA or whatever and thought they were certain to win. The betting will indicate that they are clearly beaten, yet these otherwise good players refuse to get away from their hand. Remember, if you're holding AA, you have a pot equity advantage preflop, but like some of the other posters indicated, that doesn't mean that you're > 50% to win. The larger the field, the smaller your equity probably is, but you're equity is greater than any of your opponents individually (if you're holding AA). Against a loose field, you should probably ALWAYS exploit this advantage. So, basically, like the earlier poster stated, playing timidly with monsters is WRONG. Just understand that as your field grows, as it does in loose games, your pot equity goes down, but it's still greater than theirs. Exploit this.