Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I really need some help in the ergonomic department. Both of my hands really hurt while I'm playing, and for hours after I stop. I play about 6 hours a day on several different sites, limit, no limit, and MTTs. I have 2 mice, one is the Evoluent vertical mouse for my right hand, and the other is this logitech trackball. I alternate between using the Evoluent with my right hand, and the trackball with my left hand.

I have also own this thumb-driven trackball. And I get the same pain from it as well.

It has gotten to the point that no matter what I use to point with, the joints in all my fingers on both hands are in pretty severe pain from clicking and trackballing. The whole back of both hands is also constantly sore, on or off the computer.

I've done a lot of searching on here, and can't seem to find a good solution. I have looked at other options such as the MTH helper (here), but the problem there is I play many different sites, so it doesnt look like that will work well. The same goes for the gamepad solution. The gamepad sucks for no limit too.

Can anyone suggest anything that I can do about this? I'm currently playing professionally, so taking a week off of the computer is not an option. I think I need to eliminate as much finger motion as possible.

I've been looking at these tablet pen such as this Wacom tablet. Does anyone have any experience with these? Any other ideas? Price is not an issue here, I'd spend up to $500 to get rid of the pain and ensure that I'm not going to suffer long-term problems here.

Thanks for the help guys.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

A mouse wrist rest perhaps won't solve all problems, but it might help?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=1#Post5451292

Also, no offense, but if you play professionally and can't take one week off, I think your (offline) bankroll is way too small to play professionally.

Adde

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Thanks for the suggestions, but the pain is really just in my fingers and hand, not in my wrist. My bankroll is almost six figures, so time off is perfectly doable. I just enjoy playing way too much for that, and I think the pain would return if I dont address the problem directly.

Also, sorry about the wide post, I have no idea why the links didn't post as single words. It looked when in the preview.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Doctor visit?

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Get a 3M ergonomic mouse. I got mine about 4 months after hand pain like yours.

Its totally awesome for online poker and blackjack. Best investment I have ever made for online play

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

My hand hurts now too....from scrolling to the right.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Doctor visit?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I'm having a little trouble reading your original post but it looks like you are already well equipped. I wonder if you have thought of having a physical therapist look at your set-up and make suggestions? Many people are permanently disabled by repetitive motion injury, so I think to protect an income stream from a six figure bankroll, you might want to consider this option even if it costs more than $500. I hate to be one of those people who don't actually answer the question answered, but this question looks like it can only be properly answered by a trained professional who can observe you in motion.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

You dont need to complicate an easy soultion. Your using the traditional mouse is the problem.

Switch to a mouse where your hand is totally different like an 3Mergonomic mouse and the problem will be fixed quickly. I know I had the SAME PROBLEM now its gone for me.

Dont spend $500 to see someone who will tell you what you already know. I swear the 3m ergonomic mouse totally rules just do a search and read the reviews http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/...resized200.jpg

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Duh!
Go see a doctor, play on party with MTH only and skip some bonuses for a while.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I use a Logitech Trackman Wheel. It is a trackball with a scroll wheel that also acts as the third button. I now have no hand/wrist pain at all. There are also some interesting looking ergonomic mice on the web. I think this is a case where everybody is different and you just need to find the mouse/trackball/other thingie that works for you.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

i'll also praise the 3M mouse, it did wonders for my wrist pain, though you want to make sure you use it with your forearm fully supported on a desk or other surface or you'll just start straining different muscles/joints/fascia/etc.

ultimately devices are only part of the fix. you really need to start incorporating stretches and breaks in your computer use, as well as verify that your workstation is ergonomically sound, before you really [censored] up your wrists and arms. ideally you should find a local RSI specialist who can assess the severity of your problems, recommend suitable stretches and exercises, and give you tips on device and workstation configuration.

suffice to say given how important your upper extremities are to online poker play, a visit to a specialist can only be +EV if you're already in "serious" pain.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I used to get strains in the hand from using the mouse all day (working with programming and playing poker when I have spare time...so almost 12 hrs/day every day....what a sad geek I am...I know).

Now I use a basic optical mouse but have thrown away my mouse mat and have the mouse on my thighs.
Might sound awkvard or weird maybe, but I would really recommend to give it a try.
It seems like that position removes all strain since you don't have to strech the arm at all to reach a designated mouse area.
I also know a guy who was going to the doctor and eating painkillers due to a very serious strain problems from the mouse, and the same solution sorted him out very quickly.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

First off thanks for the help guys. I know the OP was a pain to read through. I have an Evoluent vertical mouse, so thats not the problem. My workstation is also good, I have a really good chair that has good back and neck support my laptop is on an elevated stand so its at eye level. So most of my ergonomics are good, I just need to tackle this finger problem.

I'm about to order the 3M mouse, and if that doesn't work, I'll suck it up and go see a doctor or bring in a physical therapist. I just turned 25 the other day, and these problems make me feel so freaking old.

Unfortuneatly, not playing 8 different sites just isn't an option. The issue is game and tournament selection, not bonii.

So it doesn't sound like anyone has used one of these Wacom tablets for poker, I was planning on ordering one today, but maybe I'll try the 3M first. If I end up getting a tablet, I'll post about it. Any other suggestions are of course appreciated.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Have you tried the program mousetool? It almost eliminates the need to do manual mouse clicking. It takes a few days to get used to, but using it has improved my wrist tendonitis tremendously.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I like to keep a stress ball at my desk and spend any freetime squeezing that to stretch.

I have also started working out and a guy at the gym suggested rolling my wrists with a 5lb weight. It would probably be just as effective with one of those little weights you can get at Wal-mart or anywhere else that has fitness equpment.

I also agree with taking breaks every so often. I play mainly ring games so every so often I just sit out a round and get up and stretch and walk around a bit.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

[ QUOTE ]
A mouse wrist rest perhaps won't solve all problems, but it might help?


[/ QUOTE ]

I have read on numerous ergonomic websites that this might actually aggravate CTS by somewhat reducing the bloodflow to the hand and wrist area. That being said, OP is probably experienceing pain because of bas posture/hand position and keeping too much resting tension on his hands/wrists.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

If you have pain in BOTH hands and all you're doing is poker to account for this I think you should see a doctor asap. Don't forget things like arthritis effect people of all ages. Repetitive stress injury for something like poker should obviously only effect your mouse hand.

On a more practical note, as someone who has worked on keyboards and hi tech for twenty years, and has had this happen to me more than once, my solution that has worked 100% is to change my mouse hand. You first change your mouse settings in control panel / buttons / switch primary and secondary buttons (for XP) to swap the mouse keys.

You may also want to slow down the mouse movement speed for while as you get used to it.



I keep it this way for months since I figure it has taken months to cause the strain.

Good luck.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.evoluent.com/vmouse2.html

[/ QUOTE ]

this is sooooooo correct

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I've started getting hand pain in my mouse hand aswell so I've started to look at the two mice Jrecommended here. Just a couple more questions for you guys: The 3m mouse joystick thing looks like it would take a while to get use to. How easy is it to control? Also, I've shopped around but can't find any place with a good deal on these. Someone hook me up with a link?

Thanks.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Based on the advice from this thread, I got the 3M joystick mouse. Its super easy to get used to because the joystick part doesnt move, you just hold on to the that and move the whole thing. So in other words, there is an optical sensor on the bottom of the it, and moves just like a regular mouse. I still have some irritation occassionally, but the pain is 75% gone. I'd get this way before the evoluent, it really helped me a lot. Get a microsoft natural keyboard too. I still have a logitech trackball hooked up for my left hand, so I can use both mice whenever, switching it up helps a lot too.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I'll go ahead and make my stretching post again, it's been awhile:

1st stretch, place palms and fingertips together at eye level. Slowly stretch hands towards floor, pushing elbows out and keeping the palms together. It looks like the hindu goddess when you're in the right position.

2nd stretch, ball your fists and put your first knuckles (the ones that connect fingers to hands) on your thighs, near the knee. Push forward slowly, keeping fists closed and arms straight. You feel this in the muscle in the back of your wrist. I feel it mainly in the outer muscle but YMMV.

As with any stretches, take it easy at first and continue to breathe normally or a little deeper than normal during the stretches. Hold the stretches for a 10 count, release and "shake it out".

I'm not a doctor or anything, I'm a construction worker who does repetetive stress vocationally. These stretches were taught to me by a musician who also has RSI. They have helped me a great deal, I have no RSI symptoms anymore and mine ranged from complete numbness while driving to excrutiating pain. I haven't undergone any other therapy.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Thanks smoore, I'll try those before shelling out $80 on a mouse.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

just buy the damn mouse. $80 is nothing considering you won't be able to play any poker if you lose your wrist.

I've been suffering from this CTS pain as well and I got the v.mouse, and most of the pain is gone now.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Yes, but my pain has just started in the past couple of days. No reason to not try the stretches first. Its not like I'm going to cripple myself in a week.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

I don't know if this will address your particular problem but it certainly eliminated hand and wrist pain for me.

It is quite simple.

I use an optical mouse on a white bedroom pillow on my lap. The pillow supports my arm from wrist to fingers and works fine with an optical mouse.

Always be folding

Folding Pete

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

Get these at any drugstore:
http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580.../82133/200.jpg

Will save thousands in medical bills for Carpal Tunnel.
I almost could not use my hand from the pain.
Doctor said try this first. Worked like a charm.
Must have "spoon" (metal insert) in it to work properly.

Re: Serious hand pain - Need some ergonomic help.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Based on the advice from this thread, I got the 3M joystick mouse. Its super easy to get used to because the joystick part doesnt move, you just hold on to the that and move the whole thing. So in other words, there is an optical sensor on the bottom of the it, and moves just like a regular mouse. I still have some irritation occassionally, but the pain is 75% gone. I'd get this way before the evoluent, it really helped me a lot. Get a microsoft natural keyboard too. I still have a logitech trackball hooked up for my left hand, so I can use both mice whenever, switching it up helps a lot too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to hear the 3M mouse worked out for you. That mouse is totally awesome [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]