I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

Villain has been playing TERRIBLY, I have seen him chase a gutshot, and bluff a huge amount on river only to get called by top pair. I have seen him value bet with slightly marginal holdings(raised like 500 chips into a 3k chip pot with bottom 2 pair, even though the other guy could have stacked him(there was a 4 straight on the board) but the other guy didn't have straight, but the fact that he reopened the betting made me think donk) So on to the hand, I went with my instincts on this, is this just a horrible horrible call, or one you can occasionally make against a donk?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP2 (t22390)
MP3 (t11335)
CO (t3200)
Button (t7220)
Hero (t16640)
BB (t2650)
UTG (t13555)
UTG+1 (t4550)
MP1 :#A500AF(Villain)/ (t13340)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t150, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

I almost always complete with 100xBB, mistake?

Flop: (t750) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Villain calls t300, MP3 folds.

I meant to bet 450 but my hands were cold, and I like must have missed the last click but I went to the bet button before my eyes caught it.

Turn: (t1350) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t600</font>, Villain calls t600.

This turn card doesn't scare me as much as others, so I bet into him HU.

River: (t2550) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain bets t12290 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t12290.

Pretty good card for my hand, and the only way I will get much out of this particular donk will be to check and let him bluff at it. I just felt this was a bluff right away, so I thought for about 10 seconds and called mistake?

Final Pot: t27130

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

If Villain has been playing as terribly as you say, good call on the river. Your reads make this unfoldable.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

it's not terrible at all particularly given your read on villain.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

With this read, I make this call pretty much all the time.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

Hmmmn.

You've got an M of about a bazillion. You're playing 93o out of position against a guy who could have any two -- because his play pretty much defies logical reads. You believe he's a much weaker player.

So you decide to build a pot with top pair, no kicker, and to keep building when it becomes second pair, no kicker, on a board with straight possibilities. When that turns into two pair for you, and only 6% of your chips are in the middle, you're ready to call his all-in for just about all your stack.

Lordy. It might work out OK for you. Or he might have a set of threes or 67/7J/JQ to make a straight. Or even a better two pair. In all those cases, your stack just evaporated.

Call me weak-tight, but with that many chips and that much sloppy play all around me, getting involved in this sort of hand -- at every street -- feels very rash. If you give Villain a little more time, he should make some much more obviously stupid play when you've got better cards, no?

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

Your logic makes sense except for the fact that he'll probably be busted before you get a chance to play a pot against him. Why not get the chips when you can? True, this is not what I would call and ideal situation, but based on reads calling can't be wrong, or too wrong. I might have found a check in me on the turn, though.

Bruce

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

Quite the contrary, that turn bet was made for the exact reason of NOT building a pot. I felt I could keep him from betting on the turn by leading, it would suck to check, then for him to put in a big bet that I can't call, especially when I feel that I am going to be ahead almost everytime here. And just for the record, I was going to lead the river if a face card, an A, a 7, a 3 or 9 didn't hit, I was going to check fold face cards, A and 7, and I was probably going to check call a 9 or 3 depending on my instincts.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

I almost always complete when i have 100x too but 93o one of the hands i don't complete with. I play the rest of the hand the same way given your reads

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

So it's a blocking bet on the turn.

Tactically that makes perfect sense. It's kind of annoying to be at a situation, though, where 20 cards on the river leave us playing check/fold. And that's on a board that was "favorable" to our 93o starting hand.

I'm all in favor of completing with funky hands from the SB in the middle stages of a tournament when we can do so cheaply. But wouldn't 97o or 43o be more appealing? If we've got a straight draw, then there's a chance we can play confidently for a very big pot. Even allowing for the fact that we're playing against a loon, 93o just seems like a ticket to headaches.

That said, if he pushed with KK or AT or something that you beat, bravo to you! You've got more guts than I do.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

he had KQo

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

I feel like you lost to 22 and are just being results oriented. You can't get away. If my "read" on this post is right, his terrible play got paid off when in essence, he rivered a 5-outer for your stack that committed you to the pot.

I could be way wrong though.

Does that 5-outer thing even make sense?

EDIT: I was way wrong. NH.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

And that's the beauty of reads. Here, your read got you a huge profit when by all rights you should have won a small pot.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

[ QUOTE ]
he had KQo

[/ QUOTE ]

brag post then?

the real question is if you could have called without pairing your sidecard....

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

River call seems very easy to me.

I don't complete 93o in the SB here though.

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

I think the key is, if a T,8,6,5,4,2 had come on the river I would have lead the river for about half pot hoping to shut him down from doing anything stupid like bluffing. I don't know if those cards had come I lead, and then he raised if I could have called though, I may have folded.

No the only reason I posted this was because I caught some pretty good crap for the call in the tourney, even though I felt that I made the right play(actually like 3 or 4 gave me crap, and then the only other observent player who had called one of this guys bluffs earlier was telling them he would have called with just top pair in this case.)

Re: I\'m the first one to admit this is a crazy call
 

From what little I know, it seems that a good read doesn't just depend on knowing that you opponent will make unjustified bets when weak, but also knowing how your opponent will play when he DOES have a hand. It seems like you had a read on how he plays when he likes his hand, and this wasn't it. In that case, I like the call.