Hand against Surfbullet
 

10/20 4 handed.

I havent played a lot of pots against surf so my read on him isnt good. I do know that he likes to play middle pairs passively OOP in blind steal situations. However he knows I am a 2+2er but I have no clue what my image to him is. Perhaps a little laggy cause I tend to carry that around with me. Anyways....

I open on button with QJs. Foled to surf who calls in the BB.

Flop comes 4 J 7 two spades. I have no spades.

I bet and he calls

Turn comes 2 spades. I bet he calls.

River comes offsuit 7 and he leads. My line?

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

call... he prb has A4, K4 something like that i would think. given ure lag image, he could be trying to squeeze value out of a 7, but i think calling is the best of both worlds since raising will just get u owned by a 7 and prb fold out a 4 (no value in it). i <3 call, if he has 7, gg surf.

shootaa

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

I kinda know surfbullet and I play with him sometimes...

i think he has a 7 a huge % of the time here and I think it's an easy easy call.

there is very little value in raising...
getting 3bet sucks hard, and even if he calls, he will turn over a hand that beats you a good amount of the time.

on the other hand, if you raise he will also fold a lot of the time...


dude call this and move on to the next hand

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

Im sure you didn't mean any harm, but I think out of respect for Surf you probably shouldn't post anything about his tendencies.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

What am I missing? Easy raise against....anyone.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]


there is very little value in raising...
getting 3bet sucks hard, and even if he calls, he will turn over a hand that beats you a good amount of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

agree...just call

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

Meh. I probably call, as I would have expected to hear from a '7' on the flop. He's a TAG, you're a TAG, you have to put him on loony 2+2'er vs 2+2'er trickery ~15% of the time.

EDIT: I see someone suggested a raise. Given the 3-flush out there and the paired board, I don't think Surf calls your raise with, say, 99. If you are calling a 3-bet, then I say raising is bad. If you are confident you can fold to a 3-bet, well . . . I still just don't think you're ahead here often enough, nor do I think Surf calls your 3-bet with anything less than top pair.

I'd guess you're ahead about 35% of the time. Just a guess.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
Im sure you didn't mean any harm, but I think out of respect for Surf you probably shouldn't post anything about his tendencies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cartman's right.

That being said, I've seen Surf CR middle pair in this situation. So, I'm pretty sure he mixes it up quite a bit.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
What am I missing? Easy raise against....anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've read these boards -- what's he calling your raise with?

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

I AM RETARDED. I READ THE HAND WRONG. I THOUGHT WE HAD A FLUSH EVEN THOUGH OP CLEARLY SAID "I have no spades.".

So, yeah. Just call.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
I AM RETARDED. I READ THE HAND WRONG. I THOUGHT WE HAD A FLUSH EVEN THOUGH OP CLEARLY SAID "I have no spades.".

So, yeah. Just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost made the same mistake [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. If we had spades, I raise here and probably (?) cap if given the chance. I really expect we'd have heard from a flush or two pair/a set on the turn.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

No, Cartman's not right. Giving a frequent poster "immunity" is hypocritcal and a double standard. We name particular opponents by their handles all the time in this forum and discuss their tendencies. Are we operating under the assumption always that they are not posters? Just because a player is a frequent poster doesn't mean he should be treated differently. In fact, Surf has taken great advantage of these forums and such a privilege would be patently unfair. Especially in light of the fact that's he's made his handle known and posts so many hands, he should expect to have his tendencies become publicly known. That's the risk EVERYONE assumes on this forum.

All players should be treated equally. Surf is no different than any other player at the 10/20, in the regard that if he is an opponent in a hand, to properly analyze the poster's line of play one must address his tendencies, and he should be treated no differently than anyone else.

Furthermore, one person's perception of a tendency is by no means necessarily accurate and the promulgation of this perception may even work to Surf's advantage.

Why is discussion of one of Surf's qualities as a player any different then any other kinds of discussions about players that we have every day on this forum?

Finally, this is a public forum and should be subject to the least amount of censorship as possible.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

From reading these boards surfbullet comes across as a very standard player. Standard players play passively OOP with marginal hands. The info isnt that important imo. In fact playing passively OOP with medium pairs is so frequent that its probably redundant information. Especially considering surfbullets posts in this forum.

FWIW I also play passively OOP with marginal holdings.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

Like any good player I am sure surf mixes his play up. Just giving my intial read on the villian in the hand so other posters have the same info I had when making a decision. Also by posting as much as surf does he gives way more away about his play and tendencies than one general statement could ever say. On to the rest of the post though....

Yeah sorry for the confusion in the OP but I do NOT have a flush.

My initial reaction here was to fold. What is his range here? And why if lets say he has a four or a smaller pair such as fives or sixes is he betting the river? Does he expect me to pay off with A high on a 3 flush paired board. Also if he had a J or eights or nines I would have heard from them by now I think. A Jack with a weak kicker is a maybe.

So am I really going to be good here 20% of the time against a good thinking player?

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]

So am I really going to be good here 20% of the time against a good thinking player?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's a TAG. He knows you're a TAG. As a general rule, that means that at a minimum 10% of his odd-looking plays will be goofy bluffs. I don't think folding here would be a tragedy, but I think that it's marginally +EV to call. It's a raggy board, he could donk here trying to chase you off of A-high, or even a medium pocket. Probably not, but I think you have odds to call.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

Hey Kyle,

I think the river is a call, both vs me and vs other 2er TAGs, since your raise will have very little value, and you open yourself up to a 3bet, which you may or may not call.

Surf

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

FWIW, I don't mind being talked about on the forum, or having my game dissected. It's kind of interesting to see how other's view me.

I am in a particular situation, though. If I made a post saying "Hand vs 2er Magikist" and then in the post said "magikist's handle is XXXX" i'm pretty sure you'd be upset about that type of breach of information, and rightly so.

Unfortunately, most of the poker sites I registered with early on don't allow name changes, so my handle is relatively obvious on many sites. Being able to associate player X on Site Y as 2+2er Surf is quite an advantage, since you may be privy to inside information about my game without me being aware you are using this information, since I don't know you from Adam.

Surf

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am in a particular situation, though. If I made a post saying "Hand vs 2er Magikist" and then in the post said "magikist's handle is XXXX" i'm pretty sure you'd be upset about that type of breach of information, and rightly so.

Unfortunately, most of the poker sites I registered with early on don't allow name changes, so my handle is relatively obvious on many sites. Being able to associate player X on Site Y as 2+2er Surf is quite an advantage, since you may be privy to inside information about my game without me being aware you are using this information, since I don't know you from Adam.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldnt agree more.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]

So am I really going to be good here 20% of the time against a good thinking player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Make up your mind -- I thought Surf was the villain in this hand.

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So am I really going to be good here 20% of the time against a good thinking player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Make up your mind -- I thought Surf was the villain in this hand.

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG HU?

Surf

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

Posting blind. Don't like to put plays in Surf's book, but this probably isn't a J and I really doubt he's going to pay you off with a worse hand if you pop him.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So am I really going to be good here 20% of the time against a good thinking player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Make up your mind -- I thought Surf was the villain in this hand.

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG HU?

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

HU?

Just because you're a mediocre TAG shorthanded player doesn't mean that you're a mediocre TAG HU player. You might actually be very good HU.

But it's pretty unlikely [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. So, any time, baby, any time [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Not sure who the home team is this week in HULA, but I'd like to arrange it so that we're the ones bashing heads if possible.

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]

HU?

Just because you're a mediocre TAG shorthanded player doesn't mean that you're a mediocre TAG HU player. You might actually be very good HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I can't very well challenge you to a 6max game, seeing as there's only 1 of me and 1 of you. Point taken, though.


[ QUOTE ]

But it's pretty unlikely [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. So, any time, baby, any time [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Not sure who the home team is this week in HULA, but I'd like to arrange it so that we're the ones bashing heads if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're the home team, so I set the matches. I *may* pair us but i don't want to let my pride stand in the way of team luckbox's steamroller to victory.

Surf

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

HU?

Just because you're a mediocre TAG shorthanded player doesn't mean that you're a mediocre TAG HU player. You might actually be very good HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I can't very well challenge you to a 6max game, seeing as there's only 1 of me and 1 of you. Point taken, though.


[ QUOTE ]

But it's pretty unlikely [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. So, any time, baby, any time [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Not sure who the home team is this week in HULA, but I'd like to arrange it so that we're the ones bashing heads if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're the home team, so I set the matches. I *may* pair us but i don't want to let my pride stand in the way of team luckbox's steamroller to victory.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? Where's the trash-talking? Do I have to link to gonores vs Schneids posts here, or what? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]

WTF? Where's the trash-talking? Do I have to link to gonores vs Schneids posts here, or what? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

ppppphhhht... my polite reply was 3rd-level trash talking. You're not even worth talking trash to, so I treated you with respect.

and uhh...you're going down. Down to chinatown.

Surf

Re: Hand against Surfbullet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

WTF? Where's the trash-talking? Do I have to link to gonores vs Schneids posts here, or what? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

ppppphhhht... my polite reply was 3rd-level trash talking. You're not even worth talking trash to, so I treated you with respect.

and uhh...you're going down. Down to chinatown.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd better take that back, man. I am SOOO worth talking trash to! Or something like that.

A shame that our team will probably have our match wrapped up by the time we play this weekend, but c'est la vie. Still be some bragging rights in there.