($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

I'm fairly new to NL, and I'm genuinely confused about this hand. I had an overpair and a gutshot on the flop, the turn wasn't that scary. Rip it apart if I messed it up, but I genuinely don't know what i should have done...

Full Tilt Poker NL Hold'em (9 Handed)
Blinds 15/30
First hand of the tourney, so all players start with 1500
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Preflop: Didelo is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG Calls t30, Didelo Calls t30, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises t60</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB Calls t30, UTG calls t30, Didelo calls t30, MP1 calls t30
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Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Pot 315, 5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Didelo bets t315</font>, <font color="#666666">MP1 folds</font>, Button calls t315, BB calls t315, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>
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Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Pot 1260, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Didelo bets t1125 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t1125 (All-In), <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>
-------------------------
Didelo shows 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Button shows 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
-------------------------
River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Button wins the pot (3,510) with a pair of Tens
Didelo stands up

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

u did fine. i like to bet more than the pot on the flop herer, but i really dont think it matters at the $5's

i suck though...a lot

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

no set no bet at the 5's.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

I don't like this line at all. If you wanted to play 99 for its value, you needed to raise preflop and isolate. There were 7 people in the hand, by my count. The chance of a pair of nines winning a seven-handed deal after the river are very, very small. If you wanted to play for set value, then you limp along like you did and pretty much don't bet unless you see a 9 on the board. As it went, the flop you got was about as good as it could have been for you without a 9 on the board, but I don't put any more money in after my pot sized bet on the flop gets called by 2 people... unless I hit the straight draw.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

You don't need to tap on the turn here. The ten is a disastrous card (well, any over is a disastrous card). Guys limp all the time with AT, KT, JT etc. and will call with overs.

I would check and see how the betting goes down on fourth street, leaning strongly toward a fold.

--AD

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

don't post results.

Main point: A medium overpair is marginal. Don't let the pot get out of control. Again, a medium overpair is marginal. I agree with limping 99 PF for SET value. While 3 undercards is a more "favorable" flop for 99 than one with overcards, this board is damn coordinated, the flop is 5-way and it was unraised PF. This is disaster waiting to happen.

And...IGNORE your gutshot draw. Especially since hitting a 6 may give you the second best hand and hitting the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] may give you the third best hand.

How would I play this first hand of the tourney?

I would check the flop. A big bet or bet-raise behind me lets me happily fold my 99. I may call a small bet if I would be closing the action. If it checks through, I don't feel particularly good about any turn cards except a non-diamond 6. In sum, there's NO WAY I go broke on this hand.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

Didn't intially notice that it was min-raised PF. Doesn't really change any of my thoughts.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

I play a lot of 5 and $10 SNGs, and one thing I have learned (especially at the 5s) is that at least half the players at any given table have absolutely no idea what they are doing, and 3 of the other 5 know just enough to overthink everything and play poorly (I am probably one of those LOL). Also, almost every game will start with at least two knockouts in the first 10 hands. Button was wrong oddswise to call your pot sized bet after the flop, but you were never going to chase out 6 other hands with a pot size bet, and with all those calls pre-flop there is just way too much of a chance of two pair, two overcards, or straight draws out there, and in $5 games many players WILL chase a gut shot draw all the way to the river. Button is a perfect example, he raised with trash, called your pot sized bit with a gut shot, then went all in on a pair of tens...TERRIBLE!

YOu should have raised pre-flop to isolate or called pre-flop and checked the flop and turn and folded to any bet.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

Thanks for your thoughts. I think where I come unstuck is in the transition from limit to NL - I play both every day. In low limit, I'd bet/raise an overpair and a gutshot pretty much every time on the flop. Then, when I pick up the OESD on the turn, it's probably bet/call and check/call a scary card on the river.

But it's also right that at these low buy-in SNGs there are usually 1 or 2 maniacs in the first couple of hands who go all-in with any half-decent hand and bust out (me, LOL). Should you therefore just avoid any kind of trouble in the first couple of hands?

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

other thoughts/questions on this...

1) man, the button is a moron. I don't play the $5 but 'wow.' All around horrible play by him. Its a shame to see such stupidity rewarded.
2) Your play is not as horrid as his... but why are you putting your entire stack on the first hand of the tourney with an unimproved pair of 9s? Considering your position and a preflop raiser (even if it was a moronic minraise), why even pot the flop? If you're going to bet it, save yourself a few chips and bet less then 1/3 of your stack.

An inside straight draw is crap in NL unless your opponents are poor enough to underbet or give you a free card.

There's no reason for you to have your whole stack in with this hand. You had a middle pair. You can get your money in to the center with a better hand then that.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

Preflop: Fine

Flop: Your bet was too big, especially on a coordinnated 2-tone board with 4 opponents. If I bet this flop, it's like 100-120 and I'm prepared to bail to any serious pressure. The problem here is, there's really no way you can adequately protect your very vulnerable hand. That was compounded when you got 2 callers. had you bet 100 and got 2 callers, you have a bit more wiggle room on the turn.

Turn: If you bet anything here, you're commiting all your chips, That T was a terrible card for you. It looks like you pick up a better draw, but not only does the two-flush devalue the draw by 2 outs, but certain other possible hands now beat you if you improve (your set outs are extremely suspect now). You still have an M of 25 if you get out now. Pushing is the best play if you choose to play on, but I'd rather check and fold to any serious bet.

Note how differently the turn plays out if you make a probe bet of 100-120 on the flop. If called in 2 places, you have an outside chance to see the river without putting the entire tourney at stake.

The real key here is evaluating the flop. Sure you have an overpair, but it's a weak one against a big field *and* most of your outs to improve are tainted.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

[ QUOTE ]
...the turn wasn't that scary

[/ QUOTE ]

Any overcard is scary card, IMO. Does anyone think that it might be better just to push if you are going to bet big? I am not saying to, just wondering...

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...the turn wasn't that scary

[/ QUOTE ]

Any overcard is scary card, IMO. Does anyone think that it might be better just to push if you are going to bet big? I am not saying to, just wondering...

[/ QUOTE ]

He did push the turn.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...the turn wasn't that scary

[/ QUOTE ]

Any overcard is scary card, IMO. Does anyone think that it might be better just to push if you are going to bet big? I am not saying to, just wondering...

[/ QUOTE ]

He did push the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad, I was talking about pushing the flop...

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...the turn wasn't that scary

[/ QUOTE ]

Any overcard is scary card, IMO. Does anyone think that it might be better just to push if you are going to bet big? I am not saying to, just wondering...

[/ QUOTE ]

He did push the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad, I was talking about pushing the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. It's the first hand! Those 300 chips are not important enough to me to put my whole stack at risk when I will only be called by hands that crush me.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

I think if you think about this hand you'll catch your error very fast.
Pre-flop: Is Okay
Flop: I like, typically 2/3 to a pot bet is what I'd suggest here but looks good.
Turn: [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Man, nobody with a worse hand is EVER calling here imo.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

Get used to it as long as you are playing at $5 dollar tourneys....

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

check the turn. if he was on a straight draw, he just hit a hand (either the straight or TT) and now YOU have an OESD. take the free card.

edit - d'oh! there are two villains. my bad. still check the turn, cuz with two callers you are probably not in good shape right now. i know a check gives a free go at a flush draw, but you aren't in good enough shape to be raising.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

What kurto said.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

I usually play very tight in the beginning, only calling or raising the usual premium hands until the maniacs knock themselves out. You will almost never see one of those guys win, even if they build up a really big chip stack. Of course the blinds move up so fast that you need to stay ahead of them, so you have to play some.

I pretty much play the Sit and Go's now only to better my skills. I think the games reward luck too much because of the blind structure, but they are great for getting a lot of experience with odds and bet analysis.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

your play is fine, what you must understand is that $5 dollar players are gonna do crazy ass crap like min raise 106 and then call you with no hand, this is where that money is man so just keep playing solid, if anything you could check fold the turn but that is super weak IMO, i like your line you just cant see that crap coming

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

I would have raised to T120 pre-flop. Is that wrong? I see many posters saying the pre-flop limp is fine.

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised to T120 pre-flop. Is that wrong? I see many posters saying the pre-flop limp is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

The preflop limp is fine. OP has bad position and a middle pp. It's not very wise to be raising 120 preflop UTG+1 with 9 9 at the 15/30, especially in a $5 SNG. Limping allows you to get away from a hand like this if you see too much action (i.e. raising, reraising, and multiple cold callers) from later postions.


Flight_Risk

Re: ($5) Busted out first hand with 99
 

Thanks flight.