SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Have you guys played with these guys on party mid limits? Are these guys good or over-aggressive nutjobs? I picked these guys out because they seem to be everywhere on party multitabling from 15-30 to some of them playing as high as 100-200 occasionally. I don't play online that much so havent used tracker to see if these guys are good players or not but see them everywhere pounding aggression. But they are all very AGGRESSIVE players. Are they pros? or nutjobs with alot of money? You guys ever see these guys?

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

sweeta been discussed, obv bad. changing his play a lot lately, but still sucks and wont win.

threebetman seems basic + tilt + overplaying ways. almost standard 30/60 overaggro apart from some good tilt moments.

both of these did awful at higher limits. _i think_ sweeta got his money from a tournament win. 3betman no idea.

edit: also, i remember threebetman going off on someone in chat to the effect of, '[opponents nick], you are so stupid for that one time telling me i suck. never will you get a loose dollar from me again. now that i have mastered this game.'

i'd be surprised if 3betman is going to be a decent winner over the long term.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Have played a lot vs CHOPMAN and chatted quite much with him too. He is obviously a good player, he is not over-aggressive; FYI sometimes raising with 24o, 3-betting with 79o etc. is often correct at Party 15/30 since there are many TAGs there and you mess up their hand reading this way. He just runs over the table, I have been doing the same at Party 15/30 too with great success (you would probably view me as a bad player too if you would watch, since I don't play "correctly"), but both me and CHOPMAN are able to make a good living from it (although he will take up a regular job soon).

EDIT: At 2nd thoughts I remember he is already working, not a pro anymore. But not BUSTO [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Well Sweeta i think has some raw talent but it is't honed. He's like a wild stallion that needs a trainer. But has potential if his ego doesn't get in the way.

You say threebetman basic + tilt + overplaying ways almost standard over aggressive 30-60. What do you mean when you say basic and standard? You mean basic standard pro? or basic standard 30-60 player whose not a pro? From the little i've seen of threebetman i think i agree to a point. definately over aggressive, definately a huge tilter where he tilts so often its a part of his game. I didnt relaize he as bad as you describe though. I thought these guys(sweeta, threebetman, enigma, and chopman) were the cream of the crop in mid limits but couldnt figure out how they were doin it as they are all over-agressive maniacs.

So really you lick your chops when you see the madmen comin then? who are the cream of the crop then if not these guys?

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Oh i forgot about carosteph and brancajurca. Whats there story they look total maniacs but are they? or are they mad geniuses?

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Sweeta is atrociously overaggro and so bad it's not even funny. Also a 2-3 out hitting machine sent from the planet Suckout-7 located on the outer nebula of Nevermiss.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

these guys are def. not the cream of the crop. well, the two i know aren't. there are many other players who really play better day in day out. pretty much the same ones that play the 50/100 100/200 day in day out, with a few exceptions.

do you know sweeta personally? because i have no idea how you would judge someone to have 'raw talent' playing online with them. i also don't think sweeta has much of an ego in his play.

it's very easy to see sweeta is new to the game and luckily hit a style with extremely high variance and then luckily hit a big variance run because you can see him each day now adjusting his style. i first bumped into him at 50/100 at which he would _every single time_ cap the flop/lead the turn with any hand with 6 outs. then that chilled down and he did it only with hands with 10 outs. then that chilled down. and not long ago some pm'ed me a hand in which he capped preflop got c/r'ed on a Txx flop and dropped right away! his style has gone full circle.

regardless of all that he still makes fundmental errors. always calling down with pairs etc. and his river play is so unbalanced as he sucks as value betting and rarely river bluffs. it makes for some fun hands because you can go 4 bets preflop, 4 bets on the flop, 2 on the turn, then you could fold for one on the river. yes, i realise this style is the most exploitable style in poker, so i wouldn't be doing it against him if i had not checked about 4000 hands of his in pt.

probably too much detail, but i have no personal problems with us on 2p2 talking about opponents.

3betman, i wouldn't say basic standard closer to basic pro but i still can't imagine we'll be seeing him in the 30/60 next year.

brancajurca is decent, def. a step above these guys, but he has some tilt in his play in which makes him overplay + give excessive action + call down too much. otherwise solid.

just above these guys i'd class players like, AmIBovered, rarely does some strange stuff but generally solid. GalonTilt, somewhat nit but always A game. chawinski, has tilted once against me but we had about 4 hands on the run of sick match ups, good though. PeterFishBut i'd told is great. TuffCents i think is ex. great. feedmybong is 2p2 i'd say is good, above AmIBovered etc but below TuffCents. CookieCuttah generally solid. jaqueline111 i would say is v. good. etc tec.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

I never labelled peterfishbut as a vgood player but I might be wrong. I agree with you about gal. I don't know much about cookie, jaqueline and amibovered.
feedmybong is definitely one of the very few players I don't like to play against, I would be curious to know who he is. You can add habitus and senorpasta to the list of vgood players. Of course steveg, but I haven't seen him playing this game for a while.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

I have played with sweeta and can see his "raw talent" which is he has pretty good instincts as far as feel and knowing when your full of it or your strong. Now i might be wrong here and maybe he just jams everytime and when he jams hard when i've been weak and he was right i'm giving him too much credit and he just happend to look smart there. As it happened to work that time if that makes makes sense. I mean maybe he's not thinking and just goes crazy everytime and im giving him too much credit when he raises light when im representing but dont actually have the hand agaisnt him.(i mean he looks smart when i actually dont have the hand and just a daw or somthing and he pounds me weak and actually has best hand, but maybe giving too much credit to thi and its more of a case that if he fired all the time sometikmes e will look smart and somtimes will look stupid. But as you said he adjusts alot so it seems as he's working at beeing a imporved player. so if he keeps at it might be really good one day. If he doesnt go broke first and give up. I think you description of his play is scarily accurate btw nice job.

Why don't you think you will be seeng 3betman? Just not good enough? Or tilt will destroy him? As far as seeing him around next year so many change there name dont think you will see anyone around next year lol if u know what i mean. Yeah i'm not sure with this player. He sems like he has the abilty to play really well at times. But with the tilt and lack of discipline to keep it in line you have to almost say tilt is part of his game which makes him not one of the better players. But if he fixes tilt might be a terror. But who knows.

Brancajurca? Decent? def. step above these guys? LOL. For real? Well your despecriptions of the other guys are fairly accurate so i will give this some credence but fom what i've seen is this. He's tricky and dangerous. But is an over-aggressive super loose goose nutjob. He might have talent but if he's gonna raise 73off in middle psition every single time i think it might hurt his game lol. I mean ive seen him raise any 2 from every postion in the past. the tiims ive seen him he's been a total luckbox but that cant last forever i dont think. But again i can see he' not just total dope as behind the horrible preflop play he has some ability. Bu i think i disagee step above other guys. Well mayeb above sweeta til he's honed. But i cant see him making more than 3betman.

AmIBovered ive played little with him but dont know alot so take yor word for that one. Haent played muh at all galontilt so no idea. Same with chawinski. same Peterfish. I have played with tuffcents in the 50-100. Now this guy is a little interesting. I peged him as a fish when i played with him in beginning becaseu he open limps real weak from late all the time. So i would isolate him alot. But then as i played more noticed that he might not bea fish but i dotn get hi weak preflop style. Maybe he makes up for it postlop as havent seen too much bad pay postflop that i can remember. But again havent played that much with him but a couple sessions.

COOKIECUTTAH? Get the f out! Your trying to tell me he's solid? From what i saw i thought he wass the LIVE on bigtime. I mean his preflop play is atrocious. Bigtime fishy preflop. Maybe he plays decent postflop and this is what your judging it on. But this is the first player where i'm now questioning if your giving solid info. But you were pretty good with others so i'll still give this a note. But you have played alot more with him than me i'm sure. maybe i've seen his tilt moments. Don't know jacuelne.

Anyway this was intereting heairng from others on there views of some of the regular onliners. Lets see how these profiles pan out in future. I think sweeta is next young gun of poker if he goes full force with tournies. He just enough of a nut to make it i think lol.(as you have to be a little sick as far as firing with no fear)

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

fishbut i was only told was 'the best on party poker', not from a very reliable source so i wouldn't take it for much.

i checked a lot of feedmybongs hands when i datamined/played there. he won A LOT over the period i checked but some seemed to be overplayed/marginal calls etc. but looking at these hands i wasn't at the table for these so it could have been justified.

i agree with ones you listed are all v. good i just didn't include them as they never usually drop as far as 30/60.

also, while amibrovered and cookie are decent they are not the level of the other players you listed.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

just when I thought Smoothcall couldn't get any sicker he surprises me yet again.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Lol payoff. Stick to your railbirding the black chip games on prima. Maybe one of them will give you a loan to pump up your bankroll in the prima 50 cent 1 dollar game!

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

What do u know about enigma? He said he was crushing the 15-30 way back when a year ago but havnt seem him since. This guy reminded me of sweeta a little bit. Technical game a little off but has potential as he does some deeper thinking plays.
Pocketstar- 15-30 players play alot fo shorthanded bad beat. he seems to study the players well. Not sure if he is that good but does his homeworkit seems. bookis still out on his actual technical play though.

Phoenixrider- someone told me this person has some of the best stats and is very good. The times i've played with her though i didnt see it. One time i saw her call 2 more bets from bb after utg super-solid raised and sb reraise. She had 85s or somthing like that. Maybe she was on tilt. she likes to berate players as well.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Lots of those really aggro guys try to use their aggression and metagame to patch up the holes in their poker fundamentals and handreading.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Yeah you may be right. Do you think there is any credence in playing this over-aggressive as when they actually have hands they get alot more out of them? As people think there completley nuts. I mean i have friends that are very solid but under-aggressive(or at least wouldnt be cosidered aggressive) and they make alot less on big hads i think. And have friends who are over-agressive like this who get tons of aciton on there big hands. Its hard to determine which s better as the non agressive probaly gets his money in alot better the the over-aggressive pros but will likley not get nearly as much action. Whatya think?

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

My aggression level, overall, has decreased from what it used to be. As my opponents get more aggressive, I compensate for this often by adopting lines that better serve to get me to showdown and let them keep betting with the worst of it (rather than have me take a risk and push them off the worst hand... or have myself put chips in with the worst hand).

Still, it doesnt take lots of crazyness to generate action. All you need is a couple memorable moments for the villain and they will be all over you. Many of my opponents will be like "hey , he just raised 97o on the button.. and then he raised Q2s on thte button... he must be nuts", or they might see me 3betting an oesd out of position, or firing every street with a flush draw on a 3flush flop. I dont always do those things, but doing them once or twice is often enough for some people to take notice and adjust (poorly).

The idea of (aggressive) metagame play is that you acknowledge that these plays are at least, and perhaps more than slightly incorrect in a vacuum, but that overall they lead to an increase in your total money earned (after the villains adjust as you expect them to). The problem with relying too much on an aggressive metagame is that once you make too many metagame plays, you are just playing bad poker. The slightly bad plays no longer hold a benefit in light of your standard plays, since those bad aggressive plays devour the standard good plays.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Yes i agree. Very good post! But it seems that most of the top online players are very aggressive or is that an illusion? I have tried the passive rope a dope strategy agaisnt the over-aggressives and its ok but what i find happening sometimes is i let them control the action too much. And they start taking free cards on turn or betting turn and checking river unless they catch on me. Where if i pound them they seem to pound back and i get alot more out of them. But maybe rope a dope it good when you have something but not real strong so you dont overplay yourself and let them shoot themselves in their foot.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

If you play passive, you have to mix in a lot of loose flop peels with turn checkraises and a fair amount of check-folding the river. No matter your style, you still have to play poker, and a lot of players who try to play "passive" just become calling stations and pay off every hand no matter what.

Also, the players who I think are the best 1/2 Party players are probably Habitus, SenorPasta, TuffCents (although how many times can he make a retarded move and get there), I_TRANSFER_U, and f33dmyb0ng. There are a few other players who I think are really good, but I haven't played enough hands with them to establish a definitive opinon.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

Well of course lots of the good lhe players are aggressive. But you dont need to go from an AF of a little over 2 to an AF of 3+ to win a lot of money. Sure, some players who win a lot do, but those players are usually tighter than the other ones (so they can afford to pound their hands harder, since the hands they are playing are naturally stronger).

In my above post, when I mention them betting my hand for me, I dont mean top pair or even midpair. I mean things like when I have ace hi or bottom pair and I think that they might have air and yet will still keep firing. Its the only way I will get a bet out of them on the river when they have jack hi.

On the other hand, if I know the villain is a nut and I have something stronger like a good top pair, I will readily use their aggressiveness against them and liberally cap them while they wrongly 3bet midpair or a draw against me.

Re: SWEETA,CHOPMAN, THREEBETMAN, ENIGMA Party mid
 

tongni,

Yes, those players are all very good. From what I recall, their play is generally characterized as very tight, very aggressive, and very willing and apt to defend their big blinds.