Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

Saw someone list Cal Ripken as one of the most important players of all-time, which was interesting, since I've always viewed him as someone whose consistency allowed him to be viewed as being much better than he actually was.

Anyway, either he or Nolan Ryan are No. 1 on my list, with Yaz tagging along closely behind.

Thoughts on others?

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

To see the correct answer, click here

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

without a doubt, Mark McGwire

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

here, i'll save us all some time...

- "derek jeter"
- "um, no"
- "he sucks"
- "he's won a bunch of world series and is Mr. Intangible"
- [Dead says something that comes up on my screen as "*** You are ignoring this user ***"]
- "shut up"
- "lol"
- "there's no way the yankees make the playoffs this year"
- "wanna bet?"
- "sure"
- "meh, i'd rather not now"
- [Dead again, "*** You are ignoring this user ***"]
- "don't be such a wimp"

and so on.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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without a doubt, Mark McGwire

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McGwire is the posterboy for being overrated. Guys that tend to be overrated only do one thing exceptionally, while someone who does everything well is underrated.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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without a doubt, Mark McGwire

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McGwire is the posterboy for being overrated. Guys that tend to be overrated only do one thing exceptionally, while someone who does everything well is underrated.

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In Buhner's case, the one thing he did well was be an inept clown.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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without a doubt, Mark McGwire

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McGwire is the posterboy for being overrated. Guys that tend to be overrated only do one thing exceptionally, while someone who does everything well is underrated.

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In Buhner's case, the one thing he did well was be an inept clown.

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No he also was one of the first guys to make a shaved head look good on a white guy.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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No he also was one of the first guys to make a shaved head look good on a white guy.

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You're probably too young to remember Toby Kimball.

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cal is confusing, cause he's only like a .276 hitter and .787 ops but the whole streak and post-strike thing and 400+ homers (33rd alltime), 12th alltime doubles, 3100+hits (14th alltime), 1600+ rbi (20th) (but 4th in ABs alltime) out of ss kinda revolutionized the postion, big guys who could hit didn't play much short.

plus he holds records for fewest errors by ss in season (1990), so defensively he was impressive (tied or owns 12 mlb fielding records) but range wasn't great.

but was his streak just magial marketing or was it that significant post-strike for baseball, 10 years later i dunno.

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plus he holds records for fewest errors by ss in season (1990), so defensively he was impressive (tied or owns 12 mlb fielding records) but range wasn't great.

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if i remember correctly, his range wasn't great, but he was exceptional at positioning himself, which partly negated the lack of range.

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u remember correctly, he did his homework and it paid off.

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without a doubt, Mark McGwire

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McGwire is the posterboy for being overrated. Guys that tend to be overrated only do one thing exceptionally, while someone who does everything well is underrated.

[/ QUOTE ]I wish you had been here a year ago. I had a long, and very annoying debate with a poster(that I haven't seen around here in a while) about this same topic.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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without a doubt, Mark McGwire

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McGwire is the posterboy for being overrated. Guys that tend to be overrated only do one thing exceptionally, while someone who does everything well is underrated.

[/ QUOTE ]I wish you had been here a year ago. I had a long, and very annoying debate with a poster(that I haven't seen around here in a while) about this same topic.

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Well, this doesn't change the fact that McGwire's a Hall of Fame caliber 1B. But Frank Thomas was much better and no one cares - why? Frank hits a lot of doubles. Doubles aren't sexy.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

Brooks Robinson comes to mind.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

I'm going to commit heresy and say the guy who went 209-166/2.95/2486 Ks during one of the more pitcher-friendly eras of baseball.

Good hitter, though.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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To see the correct answer, click here

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LMAO! I hurried into this thread to see if you had been here yet, hatin' on poor Jay.

My answer would be Paul O'Neill.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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To see the correct answer, click here

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no argument, no content on the statement=pure gold. That is one of the greatest things I have ever seen.

Ken Phelps bat, Ken Phelps bat

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

dave winfield is the first name that pops into my head. maybe the most unclutch 3000+ hitters of all time

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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To see the correct answer, click here

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LMAO! I hurried into this thread to see if you had been here yet, hatin' on poor Jay.

My answer would be Paul O'Neill.

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Did you notice the web address? My friend actually registered this but until recently was using it to test stuff for a website he was creating.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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dave winfield is the first name that pops into my head. maybe the most unclutch 3000+ hitters of all time

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Career .285 BA
RISP .292 BA

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

Pete Rose. Half the world claims he's the greatest hitter of all the time despite his pedestrian .784 OPS.

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Good drinker, too. I knew someone who knew them both, and he told me that Drysdale spilled more than Mantle drank.

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or Nolan Ryan are No. 1 on my list

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you are out of your mind.

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or Nolan Ryan are No. 1 on my list

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you are out of your mind.

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Nolan Ryan was a very special, distinctive player. That said, half the world thinks he's the best pitcher ever.

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Good drinker, too. I knew someone who knew them both, and he told me that Drysdale spilled more than Mantle drank.

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Hmm...perhaps a contributory factor to both of their current conditions? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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Well, this doesn't change the fact that McGwire's a Hall of Fame caliber 1B. But Frank Thomas was much better and no one cares - why? Frank hits a lot of doubles. Doubles aren't sexy.

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You are wrong.

It's amazing all of the stuff that gets said in these threads when looking up stats is easy and takes all of 20 seconds.

The only thing Frank Thomas did much better than McGwire is hit for average. Their career OPS are nearly identical: .982 and .997.

I also don't see how a guy with a career OPS near 1.000 can be overrated.

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Winfield brought a lot of skills to the table, namely a gun in right field, he gets a bad rap for one bad post season performance, though late in his carreer he had a few big hits for the Blue Jays

Hard for me to call defensive stars like Brooks Robinson and Ozzie overrated, they weren't great because they hit much.

The most overrated player playing today, IMO, is Bobby Abreau, this guy racks up stats largely in meaningless situations.

I'll take Gaylord Perry for most overrated all time.

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Well, this doesn't change the fact that McGwire's a Hall of Fame caliber 1B. But Frank Thomas was much better and no one cares - why? Frank hits a lot of doubles. Doubles aren't sexy.

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You are wrong.

It's amazing all of the stuff that gets said in these threads when looking up stats is easy and takes all of 20 seconds.

The only thing Frank Thomas did much better than McGwire is hit for average. Their career OPS are nearly identical: .982 and .997.

I also don't see how a guy with a career OPS near 1.000 can be overrated.

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Frank Thomas has 900 more PA, a more OBP heavy OPS, and was, funnily enough, a lot more healthy than McGwire was. McGwire got 600+ PA only 5 times in his career; Frank 10.

He also had a much higher peak (Frank's is one of the best ever) and he's still kicking ass (check out that .250/.372/.736 line).

Thomas will likely end up with 25% more PA at around the same caliber hitting or better, yet McGwire will go in on the first ballot and Thomas will probably wait around and sneak in on a weak ballot.

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The most underrated player playing today, IMO, is Bobby Abreu.

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He also had a much higher peak

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If I understand the way you are using peak, this is simply untrue. McGwire had 4 consecutive seasons in which he posted an OPS of 1.110+, slugged .650, and walked more than 100 times. In the three partial seasons that surrounded those his numbers were similar. Thomas's peak was sustained for a few more seasons, but you can hardly say he had a much higher peak.

Thomas did manage to see more playing time than McGwire, but he definately was not a "much better" baseball player.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

though I wasn't even close to being born when he played, walter johnson was probably the best pitcher ever. THe late Shirley Povich lived by it, and he would know(I am no way saying the Walter Johnson was overrated, I'm just arguing over the possibility of Nolan Ryan being the best pitcher ever)

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I'm just arguing over the possibility of Nolan Ryan being the best pitcher ever

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it isn't possible by any stretch of the imagination. he threw some no-hitters, struck a lot of people out and was damn cool, but that's about it. sure he's a HOF, but you can't even put him in the best pitcher ever conversation w/o getting creative.

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He also had a much higher peak

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If I understand the way you are using peak, this is simply untrue. McGwire had 4 consecutive seasons in which he posted an OPS of 1.110+, slugged .650, and walked more than 100 times. In the three partial seasons that surrounded those his numbers were similar. Thomas's peak was sustained for a few more seasons, but you can hardly say he had a much higher peak.

Thomas did manage to see more playing time than McGwire, but he definately was not a "much better" baseball player.

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McGwire's peak is what, 95-99?

Frank Thomas's peak was from the time he came up in August of 1990 until 1997. He was never below 3rd in the AL in Adj. OPS+, leading thrice. In 5 of those saesons, he was in the top 10 in games played. The only time he got less than 600 PA was in 1994, and that was, well, you know the story. He lead the league in Games Played. He won 2 MVPs in this stretch.

Average EqA for Mark McGwire, 95-99: .360
Aveage EqA for Frank Thomas, 91-97: .367

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Thomas did manage to see more playing time than McGwire, but he definately was not a "much better" baseball player.

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would have been, but missed the juice-train

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Thomas had a more sustained peak period than McGwire, but McGwire definately peaked higher. Much of this is nitpicking over a few different statistics and definition of "peak", however.

None of the statistics point to the original contention that Thomas was much better than McGwire. Thomas was indeed a better player, but the difference was marginal.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

McGwire "definitely peaked higher"? 1998 can't touch Thomas's 1994.

And it's not that Thomas was a better ballplayer... Thomas still is and will continue to be a better ballplayer and is racking up more value past McGwire every day.

Edit: And even if Thomas was exactly the same in value as Frank Thomas, Mark McGwire would still be thought of as better.

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McGwire "definitely peaked higher"? 1998 can't touch Thomas's 1994.


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People forget how ridiculous that season was. .730 SLG? Jebus. Too bad he didn't get a full season, he might have gotten 62 first.

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McGwire "definitely peaked higher"? 1998 can't touch Thomas's 1994.



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Can't touch??? Maybe I'm missing something, but McGwire's Eqa was higher in 98 than Thomas' in 94. And he played 40 more games.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

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The most overrated player playing today, IMO, is Bobby Abreau, this guy racks up stats largely in meaningless situations.

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I've been here since 1999 and this is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on 2+2. Since becoming a full-time player in 1998, Abreu has put up HOF numbers. In that time he's never finished higher than 16th in MVP voting. Here are some guys that have finished higher than Abreu in MVP voting: Mickey Morandini, Dante Bichette, Jay Bell, Carl Everett, Richard Hidalgo (twice), and Junior Spivey.

Saying Abreu is the most overrated player in baseball is about as accurate as saying Tejada is the worst SS in baseball or that Tony Womack is good.

Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
 

Re Drysdale: check out Milt Pappas's lifetime statistics and tell me why Drysdale is a HOFer and Pappas is not.