85s Blind Defense
 

Villian is a weakish pre-flop, over-aggressive post-flop TAG. I was going to raise the flop (not sure if that's right), but his check foiled that. What's the best plan here?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks...

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

Check. Overaggressive post flop, pf agressor check HU = monster. Seriously, why on earth would an overaggressive dude check there? If I turn a straight (non-spade) I will reevaluate, but if I don't and he bets the turn = fold (3:1 not good enough to chase the straight on the turn).

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

Does anyone ever raise preflop and then check-fold HU? It seems like if you bet, you're probably either getting called or checkraised.

If you just get called, betting again on a turn blank might win it for you, I guess. But I'm suspicious here.

That said, I would probably bet, call the checkraise, and then fold the turn UI. I'm not sure what's best.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what's best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good! That means I'm not alone. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

i think with the three clubs I may throw a bet as last money in.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

If the player is slow playing, wouldnt he wait until the turn to check raise. That being the case wouldn't a bet be better. You may take down the pot (unlikely) or get a free card (more likely).

If the player reverts to agro, fold the turn unimproved.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

i'd check, he'll bet the flop with almost anything and would expect to be checkraised most of the time i bet here.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the best plan here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd bet. But I wouldn't have called the preflop raise in the first place. 85, even suited, -- ugh, not good enough. The value of suitedness is at it's lowest against only one opponent compared to any other number of opponents. It's not connected, it's not a one gapper, it's a two gapper - and it's Eight high. Garba`ge.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's the best plan here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd bet. But I wouldn't have called the preflop raise in the first place. 85, even suited, -- ugh, not good enough. The value of suitedness is at it's lowest against only one opponent compared to any other number of opponents. It's not connected, it's not a one gapper, it's a two gapper - and it's Eight high. Garba`ge.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about this guy (since he's not so aggro preflop), but against a lot of TAGs (and LAGs), if you don't defend your BB versus SB open-raises with anything halfway reasonable, you're going to be handing him 1 SB pretty much every time the action gets folded to him in the SB. At Party 5/10, anyway.


Edit: Here's an example. This was my first encounter with Villain. (I was planning to pop the turn, by the way, but then decided not to on the card that fell.)


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Results:
SB has 3c 6c (one pair, jacks).
Hero has 7d 8h (two pair, jacks and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 7 BB.


At the Party 5/10, this sort of thing isn't so unusual at all. Some people will practically auto-open-raise from the SB until you let them know you're not going to put up with it.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

check behind. See what the turn brings.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

Ok, thanks as always for the replies. The check struck me as a bit fishy. I'm guessing it was one of two things. 1) He doesn't want to get bluffed out, so he's going into passive calling mode, or 2) he's going to get tricky and go for a check/raise or something like that. I really doubt he would just check/fold there. So I checked behind.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>

Any point in doing anything here other than folding? Is a semi-bluff ever going to work enough to be worth it? Can I call profitably here? It's very possible my non-spade pair outs are clean too (or is it?).

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, thanks as always for the replies. The check struck me as a bit fishy. I'm guessing it was one of two things. 1) He doesn't want to get bluffed out, so he's going into passive calling mode, or 2) he's going to get tricky and go for a check/raise or something like that. I really doubt he would just check/fold there. So I checked behind.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>

Any point in doing anything here other than folding? Is a semi-bluff ever going to work enough to be worth it? Can I call profitably here? It's very possible my non-spade pair outs are clean too (or is it?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I don't hate a call, but I just fold.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

foldtastico

you have no idea where you're at, no idea if your outs are any good, and the pot is tiny. i'd find a better spot.

Re: 85s Blind Defense
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's the best plan here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd bet. But I wouldn't have called the preflop raise in the first place. 85, even suited, -- ugh, not good enough. The value of suitedness is at it's lowest against only one opponent compared to any other number of opponents. It's not connected, it's not a one gapper, it's a two gapper - and it's Eight high. Garba`ge.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Weakish preflop but likes his hand and overaggressive postflop doesn't sound good for a small suited hand.