I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

the $5.00 SNG tables are crazy.......Poker Stars is a world of difference! ALso I am all in the green on PS and all over the place on PP.

Last night confirms this...

I would like some people to try ans see what hands you put these guys on.

PartyPoker $6 Regular Tournament, Big Blind is t60 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2304)
UTG+1 (t4110)
MP1 (t1350)
MP2 (t2920)
Hero (t1730)
Button (t2933)
SB (t1853)
BB (t2800)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls t60, UTG+1 calls t60, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t250</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t220, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>, UTG calls t190, UTG+1 calls t190

Flop: (t1060) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets t530</font>, SB calls t530, UTG calls t530, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>

Turn: (t2650) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets t325</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t950 (All-in)</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to t1073 (All-in)</font>, UTG calls t748

River: (t5746) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Probably cause you are paying 50% more vig on party. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

true..........

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably cause you are paying 50% more vig on party. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, this looks like a bad beat post, so let me guess: SB got 34, and makes his str8 at the river. UTG has Q9 and got two pair? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

And if it's any true that PP players are worse/wilder than PSplayer, I actually want to continue playing there (just not on the $5). Easier to win in the long run then, isn't it?

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Whats up with people paying 1$ in rake instead of 0.5$ :|

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Yeah....this is just a post as to see as I have progressed over this year. This is my first year playing poker casually and coming here daily and reading a few books....I am beyond this level.....problem is my bankroll is not.....trying to save for a house.

True over the long run you will beat PP at the low levels.....but some of this stuff is crazy....

I think the plan is $11 on PP or try the Mini-Steps and still play the $5.50 on PS until I can build up a big enough bankroll to move up to the $11's.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

You're obviously not beyond this level if you can't beat the people there. Seriously, if you think it's tough to beat the donks, then it's not going to get easier to beat the good players, I trust you can understand why.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're obviously not beyond this level if you can't beat the people there. Seriously, if you think it's tough to beat the donks, then it's not going to get easier to beat the good players, I trust you can understand why.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're too trusting tigerite.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

I disagree.....but anyway.....here are the results of that hand.

UTG shows [ 2s, Ac ] two pairs, aces and twos.
HERO shows [ Kh, As ] a pair of aces.
SB shows [ 2c, 2d ] three of a kind, twos.
SB wins 246 chips from side pot #1 with three of a kind,
twos.
SB wins 5500 chips from the main pot with three of a kind,
twos.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Raise more pre flop($400), push the flop. If they want to call with dominated aces and the worst possible pair then they are making huge mistakes and you should charge them for it. You might have still lost the hand but long term this will work a lot better for you.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Thanks..........but i come to the consensus that once they limp....they will call almost anything.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably cause you are paying 50% more vig on party. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

[/ QUOTE ]

$1 compared to $.50 is actually 100% more, not 50%.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Probably cause you are paying 50% more vig on party. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

[/ QUOTE ]

$1 compared to $.50 is actually 100% more, not 50%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I was doing retarded math. .5 you pay 50% as much in vig than $1, oh well.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks..........but i come to the consensus that once they limp....they will call almost anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is bad why? If you can't exploit donk calling stations then you're prob not cut out for poker.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks..........but i come to the consensus that once they limp....they will call almost anything.

[/ QUOTE ]


Two things


1. If they call you down with anything, then WTF is the big deal, wait for a good hand and then push hard !! (Unless you believe party to be rigged)


But what really ticks me of lately is, that when people posting something like this (or similar, I can't beat party 6$ sngs stuff)

And right away the 'That is because you pay a higher rake' idiocy starts.

Yes the rake is higher at the 6$ sngs, but FFS the players are the most awful bunch of fishy donks seen outside of a MTT there exist. If you can't beat the 6$, then the rake is the least of your problems.


(on the other had you might be right, I better move up to at least the 109's, there the rake is lower and my ROI must therefor increase)

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Gelford,

I am not saying that the $5+1 sngs are unbeatable. When a person says that they are done with the $5 sngs on party cause they do better on pokerstars, that is when the no [censored] factor comes in. I also don't think you understand the impact of paying a 20% vig on a 10 handed sng is.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks..........but i come to the consensus that once they limp....they will call almost anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

It strikes me that there are a great many fundamentals you don't understand about SnGs. You lost a hand that yous hould have won and now you're saying your done with these at PP? You should perhaps quit becuase of rake...You should not quit because people beat you with an inferior hand.

If they limp-call...Why don't you just raise a substantial amount and auto push the flop? Or push allin PF anyway.

You said "I disagree" to tigerite (or me..whatever) and I don't think you explained why...

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

He didn't, but nothing new there. I give up trying to help people like that, it's not worth the hassle. He needs to help himself first by listening to what people are saying to him.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Nothing personal, I just seen a lot posts stating that only morons play 6$ SNGs at party, and well ...

I mean, so what if the juice is higher .. if you are playing the 6$ you are not making a living, and they are easy to beat, so if you are doing it for fun, to try out SNGs or simply for fun, that 50 cents will not kill you.

I have played plenty of 5$ .. mostly for fun, but also when switching from the regs to the speeds, I played an evening of 6's just to get used to the pace of those things.


But all else equal, your roi will suffer .. but I just do not find it a big deal.

But as I said, nothing personal, I have just seen to many of these, and just started writing .. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


I still believe, that somebody reading OP should be able to spot that OP sucks, and just state that instead of making matters more complicated by mentioning the rake. OP is just not a good pokerplayer, but perhaps he should move up to a level, where people respect his raises (Sorry OP, but man .. that was a donkish bad beat story, that you delivered)

Cheers [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

ok..sorry I do win at the $6 PP.....I have around a 18% ROI on PP (that jumps alot b/c of the small sample) after about 200....which is not alot I know.....but running into this every once and a while is sort of annoying.

Anyway I guess I should stay in the $6.00.....
This really was not about the rake at all....Pokerstars players are much tighter and you wil get about 1 or 2 donks per table unlike party which is 3-4 donks. It is just hard to put people on hands, but anyway I just follow the guide to beat the $11s in PP with some of my own modifications.

thanks

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
ok..sorry I do win at the $6 PP.....I have around a 18% ROI on PP (that jumps alot b/c of the small sample) after about 200....which is not alot I know.....but running into this every once and a while is sort of annoying.


[/ QUOTE ]

So your ROI would be 28.7% if it was a 5 +.50.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Jason, the only reason we are saying what we are saying is because we've heard it all before. It usually comes in the line of "I need to move up a level because I can't beat these bad players!"

You however, modified this and yet had the same underlying message. "I'm going to play at Stars because these players at Party are so bad!"

We're basically telling you that while you think you're getting annoyed...Why do you think you're a winner at the $6 tourneys? You can't win without suffering bad beats. This is probably the first lesson every new player should learn. Second lesson being, not to complain about it.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

the payout structure is less at PS also...only 9 players instead of 10........

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
the payout structure is less at PS also...only 9 players instead of 10........

[/ QUOTE ]

Which means you'll be ITM more, so it evens out.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
but running into this every once and a while is sort of annoying

[/ QUOTE ]

You should work to fix this

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

I guess the whole post has gone wrong.........

lets restart.

I believe Poker Stars Has better players.....i think most people also see this.

I posted the hand to see if I could have done anything different or I was screwed the moment I got AK.

I guess the problem is I am not thinking in the mindset of a $6.00 player table and I am thinking they are all reading books and reading this site ect ect....so when I see plays like this I kind of sit back and think to myself I am better than this.......when in fact I am not.....I need to learn to adjust to the way some of these maniacs are playing. This I will work on...and I thank you for that.

I guess the post came off as if I was bitching about this hand and what not........which in fact I was kind of glad I lost.......it was late and I was tired...lol. There was also no way I was going to win that hand anyway.

I sometimes forget how anyalytical some of the members are and you really have word your post carefully or it will be disected like a frog.

All part of the "newbie" learning process.

thanks.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pokerstars players are much tighter and you wil get about 1 or 2 donks per table

[/ QUOTE ]

I play on stars and don't have a massive amount of experience in SNGs, but from what I've seen I'd disagree. I haven't sat down at a $5.50 SNG yet where there weren't at least 5 people playing some pretty awful poker (sometimes including me, but y'know I'm learning). Might be the type of mistakes they make are different from what you see at Party, but they're certainly donking it up in their own special way.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you think it's tough to beat the donks, then it's not going to get easier to beat the good players, I trust you can understand why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tigerite, is "I trust you can understand why" the new "do you see why?" I am so behind the times.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Heh - I just didn't want to be too sarcastic, seeing as nobody understands my wit [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the whole post has gone wrong.........

lets restart.

I believe Poker Stars Has better players.....i think most people also see this.

I posted the hand to see if I could have done anything different or I was screwed the moment I got AK.

I guess the problem is I am not thinking in the mindset of a $6.00 player table and I am thinking they are all reading books and reading this site ect ect....so when I see plays like this I kind of sit back and think to myself I am better than this.......when in fact I am not.....I need to learn to adjust to the way some of these maniacs are playing. This I will work on...and I thank you for that.

I guess the post came off as if I was bitching about this hand and what not........which in fact I was kind of glad I lost.......it was late and I was tired...lol. There was also no way I was going to win that hand anyway.

I sometimes forget how anyalytical some of the members are and you really have word your post carefully or it will be disected like a frog.

All part of the "newbie" learning process.

thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I told you what to do differently, and you rejected it. The way to beat bad/loose players:

Charge them a lot to make those bad calls. Making bigger raises will reduce the number of callers, despite what you say. The ones that do still call are making an even bigger mistake if there are fewer callers because you reduce their pot and implied odds.
Don't bluff, it's hard to bluff a calling station. Value bet relentlessly.
You will gain a ton of equity in these SNG's by not playing hands. Stay out of the fray unless you actually have a quality hand and they will eliminate themselves left and right.
Typically people at this level are more passive then they should be, which will allow you to limp behind with suited aces and kings, getting the correct price. This kind of goes against the above point, you shouldn't do this unless you can get away from top pair bad kicker.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

If i flop tptk with a possible flush draw I make a bet of 2/3 to 3/4 the size of the pot online, especially in the 6 sng. I've found that I've had alot more success in the 11 sng although u still see alot of bad poker. Half pot sized bets gets more respect in 11 sngs in my experience but in the long run if guys are calling your bets with this crap you'll do fine. I'm 7/13 itm for 11 sng and am right at 40% itm for 6 sng over about 35 games.

I just now have the bankroll for 11 sng and will play those unless I just want to play for fun, then I move to the 6 sng. Essentially in the 6 sng play tight and bet big with your monsters.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

'Dooon't Stop...Belieeeeving'

get together a few hundo dolla billz and play the $11s

the $6s suck..you'd probably feel much better if you had another $0.50 per tourney [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Jason, trust what Tigerite is trying to tell you in that it's not correct to move up in the levels because the better players play more true to the game or will "respect your raises" more. You will get bad beats at every level.

Here's what helped me - try not to be so concerned about the results of the hand, and concentrate more on whether you're making the correct decisions or not. Trust me, you WANT people calling you down with worse hands - you're forcing them to make bad decisions. In the long run, if you make more correct decisions than your opponent, you win.

I'm relatively new myself, been playing under a year. You need to learn how to adjust your game to the style of the table.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

Thank you. This why I am here......overload of advice for free.........cant put a price on that.

Thanks

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks..........but i come to the consensus that once they limp....they will call absolutely anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP

For the under-rolled trying to deal with the worst players ever
 

OK, Here's the plan... I had been beating up on the cash games at a couple sites when I decided it was time to take a stab at the SNGs. I am a very conservative person by nature, so I came up with a plan to dominate with a small roll, working my way up the levels. There is really no reason for anyone to play the $6 tourneys at PP.

Step 1: Get yourself $100. Pimp out your girlfriend, live with your mom, work at McDonalds for a weekend. You can figure it out. If you can't you won't beat poker.

Step 2: Deposit the $100 at Stars. You now have about 29 buyins for the $3.40 10 man turbos. Although a winning player can go on a really bad run, 29 buyins is very likely to be plenty for this level. If it isn't and you think you are a winning player, go back to step one and start over. Easy huh?

Step 3: Since you'll surely be crushing these easy $3.40 games at 25% ROI, you'll be making around $0.85 per tournament. Play 150 of them. That should add $120 to your account. If you're on a heater, feel free to move on to step 4 earlier.

Step 4: With $220 in your Stars account and a lot of $3.40 experience you can be comfortable playing the $6.50s. You now have about 33 buyins. Theres only 9 players in the $6.50s, but watchout, the competition is stiffer since this is where a lot of the evil 2+2ers start out. Don't worry though. There are still plenty of dummies, and if you can get identify who's playing really tight, try to get heads up with them, and make big bets. Their scared money will think you have the goods. Play 150 of these too.

Step 5: Once you get up to about $400 in your account you'll have a ton of experience playing these idiots. Here's the bad news though, the idiots are going to start to run out on Stars. You can give the $16 tournies a shot. If you've been doing well, you should still be able to beat the $16 tournaments, but there could be an even better alternative. Move all your money to Party. Maybe they even have a deposit bonus. You now have a decent roll for the $11s, and you have completely avoided ever having to play a $5+1. Since the 10+1 is only the second level on Party, it should be somewhat comparable to the $6.50 competition you're used to on Stars.

Keep crushing...

Max

Re: For the under-rolled trying to deal with the worst players ever
 

Bravo.

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gelford,

I am not saying that the $5+1 sngs are unbeatable. When a person says that they are done with the $5 sngs on party cause they do better on pokerstars, that is when the no [censored] factor comes in. I also don't think you understand the impact of paying a 20% vig on a 10 handed sng is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: For the under-rolled trying to deal with the worst players ever
 

[ QUOTE ]
Step 1: Get yourself $100. Pimp out your girlfriend,

[/ QUOTE ]

http://usera.imagecave.com/BSwing23/needpics.gif

Re: I think I am done with the PP $5 SNG.......ugh
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gelford,

I am not saying that the $5+1 sngs are unbeatable. When a person says that they are done with the $5 sngs on party cause they do better on pokerstars, that is when the no [censored] factor comes in. I also don't think you understand the impact of paying a 20% vig on a 10 handed sng is.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


Why the replay Blarg ?


I have already answered this, stating that

1. That I felt OP had more serious problems than the rake, and it would perhaps have been more to the point to point out those, than to mention the rake first.

and

2. I was in a bad mood and sick of hearing this 'the juice at the 6s' will suck you dry talk. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


(Btw there is are players that are Europeans, and as thus winnings at some sites are taxfree, while others are not.)