666
 

SB is tight, but have openraised ATo/77 early. He overplayed the AT on a ATx twotone board vs my 3bet and another guy calling along, but I was pretty new to the table at that point and had been raising it up a fair ammount. He have been running crappy too for what it´s worth, but he seemed like a winning player, maybe not at 30/60 though. So my read is TAG, but able to overplay.
MP3 have been very tight while I´ve been at the table too, he completed KQo vs a bad players MP openlimps earlier and someone else overlimp. So not all that aggro preflop.
MP2 is a loose, fairly passive and bad player, so is MP1, which is why I limped. BB is loose and passive aswell, hardler ever raise preflop.
Ok, the hand:

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (17 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23 BB

Re: 666
 

Fold preflop

Re: 666
 

I think I'd put in another raise on the flop or turn. I don't really know what to put everyone on, but I'm not especially converned at any point, maybe MP3 re-awakening on the river is scary, but otherwise I'd keep pushing.

And preflop looks fine.

Re: 666
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

but since you saw the flop, I'm capping that flop.. or even check-3bet the turn.

I don't see your hand being behind here on the flop or turn.

Re: 666
 

I was going to check-raise the turn, but changed my mind when SB check-raised.

Re: 666
 

Is folding a pair getting 10:2 (or 13:3, which will be less often, so something in b/w really) standard? People like their hands, if we make a set we should easily be able to make up 4 or 5BB's, which ought to provide enough overlay for the times we lose.

Re: 666
 

Should cap the the flop and bet the turn. Then if it gets heavy, worry about 99 or T8.

Re: 666
 

well given your reads of SB being tight and MP3 being very tight. If sb is aware that MP3 is very tight preflop I would put him for TT-AA more so then 99 which is the only other logical hand he could have.

I would play a set fast on this kind of flop with that many bets and players. On the turn I just don't see what SB has you beat with except 999 so it's an easy 3bet incase MP3 really likes his KK-AA and overcalls the turn.

Re: 666
 

I don't normally play 66 UTG in a 10-handed game, but if I do, I'm raising with it.

On the flop, you have two lines of attack. One way to play it is to just call and see what the people behind you do. You don't want overcards drawing to runner-runner hands to fold. If it's raised behind you, then feel free to 3-bet. If not, wait till the turn. The other line is the one you took. But if you're going to raise right off the bat, then I would cap the flop and extract bets while there's still lots of action.

On the turn, given the way you've played the hand so far and what we know of your opponents, there's no reason not to 3-bet. The only reasonable hand that beats you is 99, and there's no reason yet to assume anyone has it. In fact, MP3 likely has AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT, and SB has JJ/TT.

On the river, it looks very likely that MP3 hit his 2-outer, but the pot is too big for you to fold, so you make a crying call.

Re: 666
 

Exactly

Re: 666
 

i would follow through on your plan and check 3-bet that turn.

Re: 666
 

erm...you have the 2nd nuts on the flop and the 7 on the turn does not change this fact regarding the preflop action. this is a no brainer cap flop and bet /3 bet turn. slowing down on the flop with 2nd set after the 3bet and checking the turn risking a freecard and wasting value is very very very weak and bad!

Re: 666
 

Are you really worried that he will check through the turn when his most likely hand is an overpair ?

Re: 666
 

You really think JJ/TT is more likely than 99/77 after SB leads then flop, coldcalls a 3bet and then check-raise on the turn ?

It doesn´t look like he is trying to protect his hand or is worried that he may be behind to me.

Re: 666
 

Could you say why you think I should cap the flop ?

I think you are probably right, but I´m not sure I´m considering everything.

When I played it, I was worried that it would give my hand away and thought the flop 3-bettor was very likely to bet the turn, so I could check-raise, but maybe I didn´t give enough thought to when a K/A turns or the times it comes a blankish card and he will put in another raise with a big pair, though something told that he probably wouldn´t, given that he didn´t raise it up with KQ in the SB when a bad player limped in.

Re: 666
 

[ QUOTE ]
You really think JJ/TT is more likely than 99/77 after SB leads then flop, coldcalls a 3bet and then check-raise on the turn ?

It doesn´t look like he is trying to protect his hand or is worried that he may be behind to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you be worried about 77? Didn't you say that SB is a TAG? You think he'd call 2.5 bets cold in the SB with 77? And if he did that, you think he'd call another 2 bets cold on the flop when it's clear that he's drawing to 2 outs?

The only reasonable hand that a TAG SB could have here that also beats you is 99. But there are only 3 99 hands and 12 JJ/TT hands. That's why you need to 3-bet.

Results
 

SB: 99, MP3: QQ.

Re: 666
 

You expect MP to call down with an overpair if I 3bet the turn ?

Re: 666
 

[ QUOTE ]
You expect MP to call down with an overpair if I 3bet the turn ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably not, but why does it matter? You know SB isn't going anywhere, so why not make those guaranteed* extra bets instead of hoping that MP overcalls all the way?

*When I say "guaranteed," I mean that SB is guaranteed to at least call you, not that you're guaranteed to win. But like I said, you're ahead of 12 of his hands and behind to 3, so the 3-bet is definitely correct.

Re: 666
 

i dont like preflop but ok

on the flop i prefer calling the sb bet and not raising. it is very likely that someone has an overpair behind you and you can extract more bets by letting them raising and trapping them later. if they dont have an overpair its better to let them chase their AKs anyway.

i really like how you played the turn. SB is now representing 99 and if you 3bet there is a good chance that alot of overpairs fold. i dont know if KK/AA will fold but you are certainly representing a set at this point with your UTG limp and showing so much strength and the SB is representing 99 as his most likely hand. if you just call you keep the overpairs in the pot when they may fold extracting the same bets if you would have 3bet instead.

Re: 666
 

i don't get this. why did you stop on the flop when there is exactly one hand (6 combos) that you are behind? i can't see myself getting off of the gas here until maybe a 3rd bet is put in on the turn.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
SB: 99, MP3: QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

of course.

Re: 666
 

I stopped because I wanted to get more than one bet in on the turn and I didn´t think that it was that likely as my preflop play looks alot like whatever pocket pair, so I thought a cap would show too much strenght to get action on the turn.

When SB check-raise ahead of me, I think he will often have 99 as he bet out on the flop from early when the good hands probably are late, so it looks like he is trapping, then he coldcalled, so maybe not, but when he wakes up again on the turn, it looks alot like he didn´t want to shut people out on the flop. I think he is aware that there is an overpair in the pot, so I dont see him playing JJ/TT like this very often.
When he has it, I think he will check-raise the flop more often than he will lead and when he leads, I dont think he will check-raise the turn very often.
The MP player is making a mistake if he calls one more on the turn getting 16-17:1 or whatever it was and I´m not sure he will call for two, so I figured I was better off taking his calls for one, when I´m often behind to the other player anyway.

I think I played the turn right, but I´m still not sure if I should have flatcalled the flop first time or capped it the way I played.

Re: 666
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably not, but why does it matter? You know SB isn't going anywhere, so why not make those guaranteed* extra bets instead of hoping that MP overcalls all the way?


[/ QUOTE ]

I think SB has me beat often enough that I´m better off letting MP make a bad call for one bet than shutting him out for two and opening me to a 3bet from the small blind.

[ QUOTE ]
*When I say "guaranteed," I mean that SB is guaranteed to at least call you, not that you're guaranteed to win. But like I said, you're ahead of 12 of his hands and behind to 3, so the 3-bet is definitely correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should discount the SB JJ/TT hands alot given his flop/turn play.
If you discount them by 50%, then I think you would prefer to just call and let MP draw to his 2 outer without sufficient odds. They are alot worse than 16:1 when he probably will call the river too.
If MP was a loose player, then it would make sense to 3bet lighter as you get 2:1 on your money, I dont think you do that here.

Re: 666
 

I think it´s the first limp people tend to dislike.