Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Mike:

I opened an account at PartyPoker in November of last year. I played about 20 hours per week until February, when I left to go on a trip. When I returned home a month later and tried to log onto my account, I was told that my account was blocked and that I should contact support.

My attempts to resolve this problem with your support group have been very frustrating. I spoke with 'Logan' of the investigations team, and he told me that they had decided I was using software to assist my play, and that they were closing my account and confiscating my funds. They are doing the same thing to a friend of mine. As far as I can tell, our only crimes are that we opened the accounts on the same day.

Logan did provide me with some details of why he thinks I am using software, but his reasoning is just plain messed up. The lack of logic in his reasoning makes me think that Logan is not a poker player, and does not seem to understand some basic characteristics that are common to most winning players. I am hoping that you, as a poker player, can get involved and explain just how insane his accusations are.

At this point, I'd prefer not to turn this into a public discussion, since I'm still clinging to the hope that one sane person in that company will be enough to turn this situation around. However, I do not have an email address for you, and I have no confidence that email sent to Party will ever get to you. I have been told many things by the support group, with respect to getting called back, or problems solved in 24-48 hours, or send us some id and everything will be fine... and those all seem to be lies.

I have about $7k in my account. I have never cashed out of Party, having deposited about 8-9k into the site from Neteller. My friend (whom Logan claims "plays just like me") has done quite well at the site though, so maybe his good run is what has triggered this witch hunt.

As I've told Logan, I have never used software, other than trying a demo version of PokerTracker. From my research, there are plenty of people who successfully play at Party, so I suspect this type of misunderstanding is rare, and that there is still some hope of it being resolved amicably if only the right people become involved. I'm hoping, Mike, that you are that right person, or that you know who in that company is the right person.

If you need some specific information from me regarding my account, please contact me at [email protected].

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]

At this point, I'd prefer not to turn this into a public discussion

[/ QUOTE ]


This is an interesting thing to say in a public forum.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Logan did provide me with some details of why he thinks I am using software, but his reasoning is just plain messed up.

[/ QUOTE ]

what were the details?

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

So what you are saying is there software which spies on all of the programs running on your computer at the time party is running detected illegal software being used with the program and now your money has gone bye-bye. Tear. You and your friend are SOL because you both cheated.

Brendan

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

At this point, I'd prefer not to turn this into a public discussion

[/ QUOTE ]


This is an interesting thing to say in a public forum.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good point.

It's a tough spot... not wanting to piss off the people holding onto your money, yet wanting to present some sort of leverage. I personally think that presenting Logan's 'evidence' will reflect quite poorly on PartyPoker. Making them look bad might not be wise, when they currently hold my money.

I'm still hoping a Party employee will fix this situation. Posting here is the only way I know to get hold of Mike O'Malley. Yes, it also implies that the next step is to open the details to the public. I'm hoping to get that leverage without annoying the people holding onto my money.

You seem to have a lot more experience with PartyPoker than I do, so I'd be interested in any advice you have on how to better handle this situation.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

You need to understand that since you are an unknown poster with no real established credibility people are naturally going to be suspicious, if not all out hostile to you.

It's certainly within the realm of posibility that Party confiscating your funds unjustified, however confiscating seems to be a very rare action by Party and when done is probably almost always justified.

If you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide and should fully post all details of everything that has occured, no if's and's or buts.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need to understand that since you are an unknown poster with no real established credibility people are naturally going to be suspicious, if not all out hostile to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

As opposed to someone with 10,000 posts who is an outright scumbag?

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

At this point, I'd prefer not to turn this into a public discussion

[/ QUOTE ]


This is an interesting thing to say in a public forum.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good point.

It's a tough spot... not wanting to piss off the people holding onto your money, yet wanting to present some sort of leverage. I personally think that presenting Logan's 'evidence' will reflect quite poorly on PartyPoker. Making them look bad might not be wise, when they currently hold my money.

I'm still hoping a Party employee will fix this situation. Posting here is the only way I know to get hold of Mike O'Malley. Yes, it also implies that the next step is to open the details to the public. I'm hoping to get that leverage without annoying the people holding onto my money.

You seem to have a lot more experience with PartyPoker than I do, so I'd be interested in any advice you have on how to better handle this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logic is flawed. Your best bet is to disclose everything here to us, and actually hope that it makes party look bad (which I in no way doubt that could easily be the case, party is run by clueless idiots), if enough stink gets raised they might actually do something about it. If not, you have ZERO hope of ever seeing your money again.

Also, like has been pointed out, you are going to recieve mostly hostility here from other posters since no one knows you, its just automatically going to be assumed you are a cheater.

If I were you, id start pasting the email exchanged here and tell everything that went down.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need to understand that since you are an unknown poster with no real established credibility people are naturally going to be suspicious, if not all out hostile to you.

[/ QUOTE ]


I do understand that. If I provide the details of the phone call with Logan, I expect readers to suspect that there is more to the accusation than what I have described. I don't have any way of proving that I have fully and accurately described the situation.

Mike O'Malley should be able to verify all of the details of my account and the 'investigation.' Not only that, but he is likely in a position in which he can discuss this with Logan. That's why I am asking him for help in the title of this thread.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

how much did your friend make? you said he has done quite well. pls. define.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]




It's a tough spot... not wanting to piss off the people holding onto your money, yet wanting to present some sort of leverage. I personally think that presenting Logan's 'evidence' will reflect quite poorly on PartyPoker. Making them look bad might not be wise, when they currently hold my money.

I'm still hoping a Party employee will fix this situation. Posting here is the only way I know to get hold of Mike O'Malley. Yes, it also implies that the next step is to open the details to the public. I'm hoping to get that leverage without annoying the people holding onto my money.


[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but this kind of sounds like blackmail. Like you're saying "fix it or get exposed". IMHO the best course of action would have been to just post everything up front in the first place if you're going to go public with this.

I'm curious as to what the actual cheating accusations are.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

WAY TO GO PARTY! It looks like you guys nailed another cheater.

To the OP: if you want to cheat, go do it at PokerStars. If you get caught there, Stars will only take the money that they can verify that you won through cheating. If you don't get caught, you will get to keep all your illicit gains. If Stars is only able to detect certain instances in which you cheated and not others, then you will get to keep the portion of your illicit gains that Stars does not know about.

I think the choice for cheaters is clear: Play at Party and lose your entire bankroll or play at Stars and lose only what Stars can verify you gained through cheating.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
WAY TO GO PARTY! It looks like you guys nailed another cheater.

To the OP: if you want to cheat, go do it at PokerStars. If you get caught there, Stars will only take the money that they can verify that you won through cheating. If you don't get caught, you will get to keep all your illicit gains. If Stars is only able to detect certain instances in which you cheated and not others, then you will get to keep the portion of your illicit gains that Stars does not know about.

I think the choice for cheaters is clear: Play at Party and lose your entire bankroll or play at Stars and lose only what Stars can verify you gained through cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

More wonderfully flawed logic to attempt to extract a pound of flesh from the accused.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Everyone here has an interest in knowing whether Party seizes accounts without justification.

Since many of us have a lot of experience with Party, though, we're not likely to put much stock in what you say without details.

Like the other poster said, Party rarely takes peoples' money. Incompetent, yes. Thieves, no.

You're unlikely to accomplish anything without a full and complete explanation.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have about $7k in my account. I have never cashed out of Party, having deposited about 8-9k into the site from Neteller.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another losing player out of the pond........

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
how much did your friend make? you said he has done quite well. pls. define.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it was about $35k in the three months, playing 15/30 through 30/60.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

I can't possibly give much advice without knowing what you are talking about.


However, I really don't think Mike O'Malley has time to read the forums here that much.

In an older cardplayer he lists his e-mail as [email protected] and he has also posted under the 2+2 handle rzitup before I believe.
Not sure if an e-mail or PM to either would still get to him or not though.


You could also just try e-mail info@party and explaining that you are unsatisfied with the explanation you are receiving and would like to speak with someone higher up. You could even mention that you would specifically like to speak with Mike O'Malley if you think that would work.


I do not think that just posting your general situation on this message board and hoping that Mike pretty-pretty-please reads it would be the way to go.

I don't even think he got back to the people asking him Q's about the party upgrade way back when that was a hot discussion.


Anyway, it seems we have people asking for Mike's thoughts all the time and very rarely does he respond. Most likely because he just doesn't get around to reading all the Q's posed to him in the first place.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm still hoping a Party employee will fix this situation. Posting here is the only way I know to get hold of Mike O'Malley.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't understand why anybody would believe that posting here is a way to get hold of Mike O'Malley. Maybe before hundreds of people posted their questions on the infamous "Questions for Mike" upgrade thread, but not after.

Your best bet is to disclose the details. If you have a case, get the folks here on your side.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I expect readers to suspect that there is more to the accusation than what I have described.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right about that.

So far the one thing in your favor is that you admitted right off the bat that the problem involves multiple accounts ... that part doesn't usually come out right away.

So just tell the story, the whole story, and nothing but the story. Putting it out in dribs and drabs may make some people think you are making it up as you go along.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Long live the search function!
In that old "Name the new Party tables"-contest thread, he listed his Party mail addie ... [email protected]

Good luck getting your money back.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Okay, perhaps I was foolish to give Party one more chance.

As I mentioned, I came back from a long trip, and my account had been put on hold. It took numerous attempts to contact support before I finally spoke to somebody who told me something other than "standard investigation... 24-48 hours". This person was Logan. He was the first person to ask me any questions, and then followed it with direct accusations.

He told me that he felt I was using software to assist my play, despite the fact that I had told him I was not using any form of software. I asked if he was refering to something that advised me how to play, and he said, more like something that plays for you.

He supported his accusation with the following:

1. "You opened an account on the same day as your friend."

This is true.


2. "The only advanced actions you use are preflop folds."

It is not true that these are the only advanced actions I use, but they are the vast majority.


3. "You play at the exact same time every day."

This is ridiculous. I play at various times of the day, play on some days and not other days. Logan indicated that the last three days that I played, I had started within a five minute period. I have no idea if this is true or not, since those days were about six weeks prior to this conversation. If it is somehow true, it's just a coincidence, and going back more than three days would prove that. Surely they have more than three days worth of data, right??


4. "You play just like your friend."

We do play similarly. I admitted that this was true, but would be happy to point out some differences, but he was not interested.


5. "You never go on tilt, and never make a mistake."

What can I say about this accusation? I'd certainly like it to be true. My only response was to ask him how he would recognize if I was on tilt. If I opened in early position with ATo, am I on tilt, or is this my regular play? Better yet, is it a mistake or is it not? Logan, can you really claim to know enough about my play to know whether or not I am on tilt? And do you know enough about perfect play to know when a person makes a mistake? And why haven't I been able to beat the games??


That was the conclusion of the presentation of the evidence. He stated that for these reasons, they were certain I am using software, and that they were choosing to close my account and confiscate my funds. I told him this was completely unacceptable, and that I could not believe it was happening. I asked what I could possibly do to satisfy them that they had made a mistake. He told me that if I was willing to fill out the preferred players form, they would review my case.

I did as requested, fairly confident that any review of the case would clear things up. I received email indicating that I was now a member of the elite group of preferred players, and that $10 had been added to my account. However, I was still not able to login, nor did I feel preferred.

I have called them about ten times since then, attempting to get in touch with Logan. They give me excuses every time, and always claim that he will call me back within 24 hours. I always ask to speak to somebody else, and they always tell me nobody is available. I have never received a phone call.

It's been about three weeks since I last spoke to Logan.

I don't know what more to say. I swear that the above is a complete account of what occurred. I have not left out any relevant details, and I have not altered or exaggerated in any way.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Are you using SnoopFree?

For sure they think you set up multiple accounts for bot play.

They seem to already judged you as guilty and have closed the case.

Since there is no appeal process with third party intervention availiable, you just have to accept their decision regardless if you are innocent or guilty.

Thats the price we all pay for agreeing to the sites terms when we sign up. We give them that power when we click agree.

Sorry it happened to you if you are one of the innocent ones who got screwed. You aren't the first and won't be the last.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

wow, yeah, that definitely doesnt cast them in a good light. If that is the extent of the convo and their claims, thats really [censored] up. Especially since I do everything on that list, with the exception of not tilting (tho like you said, how the [censored] do you quantify that?).

Those reasons are just outright stupid, and i wont even waste the space describing why they are stupid as anyone with 2 brain cells understands why.

I really hope mike or someone at party gets to the bottom of this, but honestly, im not hopeful. Id keep bugging the [censored] out of them if I were you. GL

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
For sure they think you set up multiple accounts for bot play.


[/ QUOTE ]

yep.

also, if they think this, then there are probably other reasons they have for suspecting it. they will *never* disclose these other methods. thus it seems like there is not enough evidence.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

OT:

Is SnoopFree a banned program?

I just use it as a preventative measure to help guard against possible keylogging attacks.

If it is a banned program on Party, can you use it for all other instances and allow Party "thru," so to speak?

I do not cheat, but it wouldn't be good if Party thought ALL SnoopFree users are cheaters....

Edit: I quickly just read Party's site and didn't see anything about SnoopFree or anything germane to the use of such programs.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Liver: If what you say is true, keep posting, and keep bringing it up. Try CasinoMeister. I doubt he can help with Party, but it's worth a shot. Email Party. If you can get them to respond through email, their emails are better evidence than your memory of the phone conversation.



Synergy: I like your posts, but I think you're wrong here:

[ QUOTE ]
Thats the price we all pay for agreeing to the sites terms when we sign up. We give them that power when we click agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

You give them that power when you give them your money. Clicking "agree" has nothing to do with it.



GrannyMae: do you ever not take the site's side in anything?

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Doesn't sound like the whole story to me.

Do you and your friend always play at the same time? At the same table? In the same tournament? Were both accounts opened from the same computer? Do you play your account on your friend's computer? Does he play on your computer? Have any other friends been banned? Do you use some sort of virtual machine? Do you have some processes with unusual names running on your computer while you play? etc., etc., etc.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

If this Logan is making no sense in the first place I wouldn't bother trying to get a hold of him again.

I don't know why you aren't allowed to talk with anyone else on the matter. You should be able to just ask for a manager/supervisor or something.

10 phone-calls and you can't talk to anybody??
Usually their phone-support isn't THAT bad.


You have several addy's for Mike O now so perhaps that will help you get somewhere.

Let us know how this turns out.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is SnoopFree a banned program?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not banned. I just wondered if he was using it because it sounds like Party investigations were going wholly on deductive reasoning to make their findings. Usually they can do the screen scrape or whatever else they do to snoop on the programs you are running while at their site. In this case they couldn't seem to produce anything conclusive like that. It was all deductive IMO.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
GrannyMae: do you ever not take the site's side in anything?

[/ QUOTE ]


how did i take the site's side? all i said was that they have detection devices that they won't expose, therefore it SEEMS like lack of evidence for their actions.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]


GrannyMae: do you ever not take the site's side in anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're getting a piece of the action you'd be a fool to rock the boat. Therefore you shill for the sites.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

I don't know enough details to take a side but it's very disturbing how they can just confiscate your funds (7K). If they want to close someone's account, they should at least return the money to you barring some heinous action on your part.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

Hey fryedliver: I dug up the link to the Party upgrade threads. Mike O'Malley is monitoring them and he'll get back to you soon with any questions you may have! Post your question there. Good luck!

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post4764932

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


GrannyMae: do you ever not take the site's side in anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're getting a piece of the action you'd be a fool to rock the boat. Therefore you shill for the sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

u r an idiot.

nothing new, but i just thought i would point that out to others that don't know you.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you using SnoopFree?


[/ QUOTE ]

No. I'm unfamiliar with this program, other than what I just learned. The only firewall I am using is in my router, nothing on my pc, in case that means anything.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you and your friend always play at the same time? At the same table? In the same tournament? Were both accounts opened from the same computer? Do you play your account on your friend's computer? Does he play on your computer? Have any other friends been banned? Do you use some sort of virtual machine? Do you have some processes with unusual names running on your computer while you play? etc., etc., etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not certain when my friend plays. I only speak to him occasionally. We certainly do not coordinate when we play, so it would be impossible that we are always playing at the same time.

I told Logan that I didn't think I had ever sat at the same table with my friend. I later looked at the hand histories on my pc, and found one time in which we sat at the same table, playing for about 40 hands. I don't specifically recall this, which surprises me, but I guess I just didn't notice while playing three tables and doing whatever else I was doing.

I looked at those hand histories to see if we did anything that might have been deemed suspicious. We only both saw the flop on one hand. In that hand, he raised first to act, I reraised him with AKo, and the BB called two bets, and my friend called. The flop came Q-high, I bet, BB called, my friend check-raised me, I called, and the BB called. Turn was a rag, my friend bet, I folded, and he and the BB went to the showdown, splitting the pot with each of them holding KQ.

There were no other hands that we were both involved in. I'm not certain we never sat at the same table other times though, but I don't think we did.

I've never played any tournaments at Party. I don't know if my friend has or not.

We did not open the accounts on the same computer. We spoke on the phone the day we opened the accounts, but we each opened our own accounts. We live about an hour away from each other. I've never logged onto his account from my house, and he doesn't know my password, so he cannot have logged onto my account.

I don't know of anyone else being banned.

I'm not using a virtual machine. I don't think there are any processes running on my machine that would alarm Party. The machine is fairly sparse, and the only program I would typically run while playing would be a browser.

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

what have they told your friend is the reason they have seized his account?

also, has your friend spoken with them on the phone as well??

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

This is becoming an interesting mystery. You are obviously far more intelligent than most of the previous first-time posters with locked accounts -- your story hangs together well.

How did Party know the other guy was a friend of yours?

In what languages can you and/or your friend program?

Have you browsed the websites of things on the banned software list, like WinHoldem or Poker Bot Pro?

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is becoming an interesting mystery. You are obviously far more intelligent than most of the previous first-time posters with locked accounts -- your story hangs together well.

How did Party know the other guy was a friend of yours?

In what languages can you and/or your friend program?

Have you browsed the websites of things on the banned software list, like WinHoldem or Poker Bot Pro?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably a hoax.

I have never dealt with a Party rep who would say:

[ QUOTE ]
5. "You never go on tilt, and never make a mistake."

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never exchanged emails or talked on the phone with a Party rep who would use poker slang. Just go back and look at how the typical investigations team rep talks about the behavior that a cheater might display during the Tealninja thread--it's all stilted language that emphasizes the word "play" a lot.

scrub

Re: Mike O\'Malley: Please Help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know enough details to take a side but it's very disturbing how they can just confiscate your funds (7K). If they want to close someone's account, they should at least return the money to you barring some heinous action on your part.

[/ QUOTE ]
They are accusing him of using a bot. The punishment fits the accusation.