Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

This is a Stars 6-handed $119 turbo. 2 places paid.

The BB has been sitting out the entire SNG. Each time I have raised on the button since it's been 3 handed, the SB (having me covered) has moved allin. He knows I can fold into the money & probably assumes that I will fold everything.

After posting the BB has 130 behind and is still sitting out like he has been the whole way.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero (t2995)
SB (t5675)
BB (t330)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

allin, qq is too strong.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

QQ is good enough to push it, If SB is such a [censored] that he will call with any two, let him. I personally would never fold in this spot.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

fold; QQ is strong but the 300 in blinds do NOT increase your equity enough to risk going from 40% (is that 2nd place payout?) to 0% of the prize pool

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

Im not folding QQ here. I raise and hope he comes over the top, if he does I call.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

Does this mean that you want to get it in here or are you hoping that the equity of your QQ plus fold equity makes allin your play?

The reason I ask is b/c if Hero makes it 600, BB will push almost any 2 (I assume) and Hero can call that. This is not to say that I am advocating this play

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

Well if SB is smart he folds and keeps shorty there and keeps pushing any two into your big blind. It's a unique situation but he can drain you dry if you keep folding on the button. Push the queens if SB has any clue how to take advantage of his position.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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It's a unique situation but he can drain you dry if you keep folding on the button.

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Not really. BB is busto in 3 hands

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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Well if SB is smart he folds and keeps shorty there and keeps pushing any two into your big blind. It's a unique situation but he can drain you dry if you keep folding on the button. Push the queens if SB has any clue how to take advantage of his position.

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this won't work...bb only has 130 chips, so next round he's out...so he can't fold and keep pushing into you...he has to fold/call based on ev of that hand (and knowing he can push the next 2 hands)

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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Im not folding QQ here. I raise and hope he comes over the top, if he does I call.

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so u WANT a call???

u wanna 60/40 or whatever it? with 40% meaning u get 0% of the prize pool?

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

i open push..any raise will probaly generate a push by him..so why risk letting him raise..just push...he should be very tight on his calling range

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

what is the payout structure?

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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he should be very tight on his calling range

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why would he be very tight? if he loses to you, he still has >2500 chips (12bbs) and shorty is going out next round since he's sitting out

if he wins, he gets 1st

depending on payout structure, he may be pretty loose here

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

$429
$231
$0

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

What about raising to $400? If SB comes over the top and BB calls you insta-call. If SB comes over the top and BB folds, you fold. In my opinion you have to secure second place first and foremost and this prevents BB from getting a walk because if I'm chip leader I'm folding if you fold.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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depending on payout structure, he may be pretty loose here

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Yes

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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This is a Stars 6-handed $119 turbo. 2 places paid.

The BB has been sitting out the entire SNG. Each time I have raised on the button since it's been 3 handed, the SB (having me covered) has moved allin. He knows I can fold into the money & probably assumes that I will fold everything.

After posting the BB has 130 behind and is still sitting out like he has been the whole way.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero (t2995)
SB (t5675)
BB (t330)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

-Adjusting to table situations Check
-Taking advantage of opponents weakness Check
-Making the best hand fold by aggressive play Check

I'm no expert, but it appears that you are indeed in a poker game.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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Im not folding QQ here. I raise and hope he comes over the top, if he does I call.

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so u WANT a call???

u wanna 60/40 or whatever it? with 40% meaning u get 0% of the prize pool?

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I seriously doubt you will be 60/40 ifs hes been pushing every time, more like 2:1 or 70/30.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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Well if SB is smart he folds and keeps shorty there and keeps pushing any two into your big blind. It's a unique situation but he can drain you dry if you keep folding on the button. Push the queens if SB has any clue how to take advantage of his position.

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this won't work...bb only has 130 chips, so next round he's out...so he can't fold and keep pushing into you...he has to fold/call based on ev of that hand (and knowing he can push the next 2 hands)

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My post was referring to the situation that happens when Hero folds QQ. If Hero folds every hand big stack Villian can always fold his sb allowing short stack to stay alive.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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What about raising to $400? If SB comes over the top and BB calls you insta-call. If SB comes over the top and BB folds, you fold. In my opinion you have to secure second place first and foremost and this prevents BB from getting a walk because if I'm chip leader I'm folding if you fold.

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BB has been sitting out the whole way. I don't think he's calling

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

ok, so 65/35 structure...

70% of prize pool is given out once the bubble bursts

it's not worth risking your 35% for a better shot at the extra 30%...especially not for the 300 chips that you'd be stealing (3% of chips on table)

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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Well if SB is smart he folds and keeps shorty there and keeps pushing any two into your big blind. It's a unique situation but he can drain you dry if you keep folding on the button. Push the queens if SB has any clue how to take advantage of his position.

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this won't work...bb only has 130 chips, so next round he's out...so he can't fold and keep pushing into you...he has to fold/call based on ev of that hand (and knowing he can push the next 2 hands)

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My post was referring to the situation that happens when Hero folds QQ. If Hero folds every hand big stack Villian can always fold his sb allowing short stack to stay alive.

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ah yes, since shorty is to villian's left, he can fold the blinds and keep shorty in forever

well if he's gonna do that, u have to push here...but the likelyhood of him doing that is probably pretty low

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

Oh I see what you meant.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

btw, if u did fold here and villian then folded to shorty to keep him in, you'd have to flat call the next round (push if premium hand) to force villian (or u) to play against shorty...otherwise he'll blind u down while keeping shorty alive...so flat call every time and fold to his reraise (unless premium hand) and then shorty will have to win some coin flips and villian can't just keep him in by folding to him

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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What about raising to $400? If SB comes over the top and BB calls you insta-call. If SB comes over the top and BB folds, you fold. In my opinion you have to secure second place first and foremost and this prevents BB from getting a walk because if I'm chip leader I'm folding if you fold.

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The min raise might actually be the best play. Since BB is sitting out it really doesn't matter if SB comes over the top as long as BB doesn't get a walk. This is definitely outside the box thinking and it guarantees hero 2nd place. I like especially if we are unsure if SB has a tight calling range.

Edit: Yep, flat calling is better.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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What about raising to $400? If SB comes over the top and BB calls you insta-call. If SB comes over the top and BB folds, you fold. In my opinion you have to secure second place first and foremost and this prevents BB from getting a walk because if I'm chip leader I'm folding if you fold.

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BB has been sitting out the whole way. I don't think he's calling

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OK, but this guarantees the chip leader won't fold and give shorty a walk. 200 chips for shorty is a lot more important than 400 chips for you. Right or wrong I'm sacrificing about 14% of my stack to take 60%+ away from BB.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

of course, bb could win the coinflip, so it doesn't guarantee 2nd for you

but with qq i'm pushing or folding...he hasn't shown yet that he is smart enough to fold to shorty when u fold

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

I would make a standard raise. SB then CANNOT fold his blind to the BB and keep him alive, so he's all in in his SB next hand regardless and NOTHING the current SB can do about it.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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Each time I have raised on the button since it's been 3 handed, the SB (having me covered) has moved allin.


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There is a large difference between this and you opening for a push. If SB is as good as his re-raising would indicate, he's good enough not to flippantly call off half his stack and jeopardize your finish. I'd insta-push.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

why make the raise when u can just flat call and accomplish the same thing? because of the tiny bit of FE from a raise?

i'd only see raising if i want sb to push with any2, giving me an 80/20 against that range

again, i don't think sb is good enough to fold to bb until i see it...at that point, i'll start flat calling any2 just to ensure no folding occurs...also, if the blind is about to go up before the next rotation, then i don't have to worry about that, as shorty will be put in by the blinds

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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I would make a standard raise. SB then CANNOT fold his blind to the BB and keep him alive, so he's all in in his SB next hand regardless and NOTHING the current SB can do about it.

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yeah, seriously...any other answer here is completely "duh".

Even just calling, minraising, whatever, as long as you guarantee that 66% of BB's stack goes "poof" you've done well. Forget about the QQ in your hand...who cares?

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

Pretty sure we have every answer possible. I still like flat calling as it guarantees us 2nd place and doesn't risk losing anymore chips than we have to.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

flat calling does NOT guarantee us 2nd place

shorty can always WIN the hand...which doubles/triples him up...2-3 wins and u are in trouble

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

It's funny, 4 pages of posts on a situation that will most likely never happen to most of us. I guess it's a good poker exercise to think through scenarios like this one even if they hardly ever happen.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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I still like flat calling as it guarantees us 2nd place and doesn't risk losing anymore chips than we have to.

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What? BB can't go out this hand. How are we guaranteed 2nd?

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

i've had people sit out (awhile ago a player's dad got into accident and he had to rush him to hospital...still got to bubble sitting out and i pushed a good hand instead of letting him blind out and got 4th)

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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It's a unique situation but he can drain you dry if you keep folding on the button.

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Not really. BB is busto in 3 hands

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How often is BB busto? Isn't it reasonably possible that the short stack doubles up a couple times giving him more sticking power (perhaps enough so he even has a chance to make the money).

It seems folding endlessly is a mistake since you are significantly reduce your chances of taking first and could fold your way out of second. Sure first is only worth 60% while second is 40% but this makes first worth 50% more than second. If you double through the big stack you have a better chance at taking first (I'm playing so I hope someone else can do the math [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Anyway, QQ seems just too good to give up here.

~ Rick

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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flat calling does NOT guarantee us 2nd place

shorty can always WIN the hand...which doubles/triples him up...2-3 wins and u are in trouble

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How is shorty going to win this hand if he's sitting out? I guess if SB calls and for some [censored] reason we both check it down.

Perhaps I should rephrase, unless something crazy happens we are guaranteed to get 2nd place if we continue to not let shorty get a walk.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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i've had people sit out (awhile ago a player's dad got into accident and he had to rush him to hospital...still got to bubble sitting out and i pushed a good hand instead of letting him blind out and got 4th)

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I was gonna say "You didn't learn that from me" but you probably did. Sorry.

Re: Sometimes SNGs aren\'t poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?
 

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How often is BB busto? Isn't it reasonably possible that the short stack doubles up a couple times giving him more sticking power (perhaps enough so he even has a chance to make the money).

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After posting the BB has 130 behind and is still sitting out like he has been the whole way.

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BB is busto in 3 hands no matter what. If BB was playing this would be a push every time. The fact that he is sitting out and you are 100% guaranteed 2nd and 35% of the prize pool makes it a fold (or a limp if SB is savy enough to fold here if you do and push on your blind).