5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

Villain 31/23/2. Standard? What do I beat?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero folds
Final Pot: 9.70 BB

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

You should have 3bet the flop.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

I would have 3bet flop. The way you played it i would fold the turn to.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

A read would help a lot here. That said, I agree with Kwaz on 3-betting the flop against a 31/23/2. As played, I think the turn fold may be right, but I have a hard time making it getting better than 5:1 on the calldown. It really comes down to reads, and seeing as how you don't have one, I probably call down. Not saying it's right, but it's what I'd probably do.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

As already stated, this flop really should be 3-bet. As it is, what was your goal with the donk? There aren't any hands between QQ and Kx for you to put pressure on by representing top pair, and there are very few drawing hands (AQ, AJ) for you to fear giving a free card to.

Scott

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
You should have 3bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right. However, if I 3-bet the flop, and get raised anyways on the turn, what is my move?

Scotch, I donk the turn so that I can get away from the hand for one bet instead of calling down for two. I don't think he's going to raise when he's behind here (AQ, 88, 99, TT) and thus I can be quite sure a fold is ok on the turn.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

the only reason to donk the turn is to find out ur no good for one BB cheaper than calling down. calling here is really bad

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

Your line is not good.

What was the point with the turn bet? If he raised the flop with a worse hand like TT-99 he will probably not check behind on the turn. AQ might, but that hand is very unlikely.

And with his better and the splitting hand, he may raise, and there is no point of throwing your 2 outer away for no reason. And sometimes he's bluffing.

Its better to not chase away his worse hands. Let him bet the turn. And probably c/c a blank river too IMO. b/c would be spewing and b/f is not good either because he will probably not pay off with the lower pairs. c/f is the alternative, but I prefer a call.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
You should have 3bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. Villain 3-bet PF, he could have any PP 66+ and if you 3-bet he will most of the time fold his 2-outers - which makes up a big portion of his range.

And I think he is rarely raising the flop for a free card here, so whats the point of 3-betting?

3-betting seems bad to me.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should have 3bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. Villain 3-bet PF, he could have any PP 66+ and if you 3-bet he will most of the time fold his 2-outers - which makes up a big portion of his range.

And I think he is rarely raising the flop for a free card here, so whats the point of 3-betting?

3-betting seems bad to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So on one hand you are giving him 2 outs, but folding to a K on the turn. That is inconsistent. 3 bet the flop. You are ahead, make some money. You cannot fear every possible hand this guy has.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

I too don't like this line, but I don't think MP's raise on the turn means he has us beat. Too often I come across players raising donk bets just because they are assuming you are trying to steal the pot--AJ and mid-pocket pairs are still likely holdings. A read is important, without one I call down.

I don't like a flop 3-bet either because you might be folding out hands you beat on the turn. Call the raise, c/c the turn, and consider b/f the river. We still have a very strong hand HU and we want to see a showdown, not save a single bet.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

A 7 bb pot on the turn, against an aggressive player, is not the best place to think about saving a bet. The way you played it, check call from the turn on.

Absent a better read, I'm in till showdown.

That said, I can't think folding here is a huge mistake.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

The flop 3-bet is essential. Most of the times you are against AK/AQ/AJ/KQs and you need to put money in the pot before an A or K falls. If he has a low PP and folds then that's fine, but low PPs are a smaller percentage of his range and a lot of ppl will call down with these if no other overcard falls.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

villain also has AJ/KJ/QJ/JT in his range after he raises the flop which is almost as large as his PP range. not to mention the chance he has AK/AQ. I think you are missing a lot of value by not 3betting the flop.

Re: 5/10 QQ fold on turn
 

Gotta three bet the flop.